Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 307 308 [309] 310 311 ... 335

Author Topic: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:Mutating into COVID-21 Edition  (Read 170984 times)

Rolan7

  • Bay Watcher
  • [GUE'VESA]
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4620 on: December 02, 2020, 08:23:55 pm »

And since washing hands >>>> facemasks, I do believe facemasks are more of a problem than a safety.

.... you think washing hands is more important than face masks WITH AN AIRBORNE DISEASE?

🙄
Yes, because it's not a mainly airborne transmission virus.  If that were the case, like with measles for example, hospitals would know because it would have spread through all wards.
Contact is still shown to be a more important transmission vector than air transmission.  At least that's still the general concensus amongst goverenment advisors and national health department over here.
So yeah, washing hands is much more important than facemasks
You're mistaken

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30514-2/fulltext

Quote
During the initial stages of the pandemic there was concern about surface transmission. However, latest research suggests that this is unlikely to be a major route of transmission as although SARS-CoV-2 can persist for days on inanimate surfaces, attempts to culture the virus from these surfaces were unsuccessfu

Quote
Infection control guidelines have stated that most respiratory virus transmission occurs from large infected droplets produced by coughing, sneezing, and breathing in close proximity to another person.

Quote
Initially it was thought that airborne transmission of SARS-CoV-2 was unlikely, but growing evidence has highlighted that infective microdroplets are small enough to remain suspended in the air and expose individuals at distances beyond 2 m from an infected person. This knowledge is also corroborated by investigation of spread of cases between people who were not in direct or indirect contact, suggesting that airborne transmission was the most likely route.

Quote
In July, over 200 scientists published a statement calling for international bodies to recognise the potential for airborne spread of COVID-19 as they were concerned that people would not be fully protected by adhering to the current recommendations

Quote
Cases of transmission from people more than 2 m apart have occurred but in enclosed spaces with poor ventilation, and typically with extended exposure to an infected person of more than 30 min. The CDC have been clear to point out that most infections are spread through close contact and that airborne transmission is not the primary route of transmission.
Whether droplet or airborne transmission is the main route, the risk of infection is known to be much lower outside where ventilation is better.
This is kind of just a sum-up of stuff that has been going around in circles for the last six months. The anti-mask mandate early on was a bad idea based just on scarcity. But as time has gone on the general opinion is that air transmission is far more important than others.

It's airborne. Most often from directly inhaling what other person coughs or spittles, sometimes through suspended aerosols

Masks are more important. It's not an either-or matter (honestly before all this I already thought the concept of "risk compensation" itself was kind of bullshitty ).  But if you had to point at one measure over the other, masks are more important.


You gave an, I think, flawed example using hospitals (we can go into it if you like because to me it made absolutely no sense). But let me give you a better one: if people were getting the virus from touching surfaces, we'd get a lot of people infected at home from their supermarket groceries. Yet to my knowledge no such thing has happened. Main contagion is person to person. And to avoid that, first you need to keep physical distance, and you need to wear a mask. Washing hands is a good general hygiene measure, but by itself it falls short with covid

There were early reports about Covid surviving on surfaces for like, 5 days or something, hence all the people disinfecting or quarantining their groceries (like me).  But samples of it existing on a surface is not the same as catching airborne particulates from unmasked respiration in the eyeball.  Not even coughing, just breathing.

Reality is gross.
(quoted because new page)
Logged
They/them
Black lives matter.

Max™

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CULL:SQUARE]
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4621 on: December 03, 2020, 08:02:10 am »

Yeah, seriously, masks got turned into a political issue because we're so fucking stupid here and we're closing in on 300k confirmed deaths, steady 200k new cases and we should hit 3k deaths per day next week I expect.

Masks reduce YOUR viral load going out, and they reduce THEIR viral load going in, giving everybody a reduced infection and saving lives. Washing hands is fine, but I don't care compared to simply fucking wearing a goddamn mask if you must go out, don't go out for fucking stupid bullshit like church or bars or fucking sports.
Logged

Iduno

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4622 on: December 03, 2020, 08:15:13 am »

The problem isn't facemasks. The problem is that people are idiots. Other than total isolation and quarantine, the best way to avoid infection is to take multiple precautions. This includes masks, hand washing and/or sanitizing, and of course the ever-popular social distancing.

Like you said though, people are idiots and will do the bare minimum in the hopes that it will be all that is required.

People are doing the bare minimum where you are? Most people aren't taking any precautions here.

Also, I've met a few people now who seem to have caught COVID twice. The confirmed one's wife is a teacher, and they aren't being allowed to be safe.
Logged
No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality

Frumple

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Prettiest Kyuuki
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4623 on: December 03, 2020, 08:21:12 am »

Yeah, it's supposed to be pretty rare but happening. Iirc what's usually been observed is someone gets a very mild infection and just sorta'... doesn't develop a defense against it. So they're still open to a round two.

From what I recall folks that get the knock down, drag out, welcome to vent hell treatment haven't been seeing reinfection, at least. Sort of the consolation prize for the permanent organ damage and losing weeks of their life to misery, I guess.
Logged
Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Naxza

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wanderer of Broken Worlds
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4624 on: December 03, 2020, 09:58:17 am »

Yeah, seriously, masks got turned into a political issue because we're so fucking stupid here and we're closing in on 300k confirmed deaths, steady 200k new cases and we should hit 3k deaths per day next week I expect.

Masks reduce YOUR viral load going out, and they reduce THEIR viral load going in, giving everybody a reduced infection and saving lives. Washing hands is fine, but I don't care compared to simply fucking wearing a goddamn mask if you must go out, don't go out for fucking stupid bullshit like church or bars or fucking sports.

Today, not next week, according to the CNN headline I just read. 3100.
Logged

MrRoboto75

  • Bay Watcher
  • Belongs in the Trash!
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4625 on: December 03, 2020, 10:31:59 am »

Logged
I consume
I purchase
I consume again

Cthulhu

  • Bay Watcher
  • A squid
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4626 on: December 03, 2020, 11:59:43 am »

Hey remember when it was fringe internet weirdos freaking out and stocking up on food and masks while the main media narrative was that you shouldn't wear masks
Logged
Shoes...

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4627 on: December 03, 2020, 12:09:37 pm »

Seems like the facemasks make people think they can now be less careful with other measures.  And since washing hands >>>> facemasks, I do believe facemasks are more of a problem than a safety.

This is pretty much the argument for why Sweden's health dep aren't recommending masks. They're afraid a recommendation of masks are going to mean people stop caring about things like distancing and hand cleaning.
Logged
Love, scriver~

Naxza

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wanderer of Broken Worlds
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4628 on: December 03, 2020, 12:37:27 pm »

Sweden's also struggling hard with the virus right now, isn't it? It also has more social infrastructure to keep people home and separated, unlike however many million essential workers living paycheck to paycheck over here. Shit, I can't even go to the laundromat without some bare-gobbed numbfuck loitering for an hour just inside the door, or the staff ardently not wearing masks all day there. No amount of hard cleaning is going to keep the cashier safe or the laundromat air microdroplet-free while I try my absolute goddamn best not to spend any more time than absolutely necessary huffing the stuff.

My fault for not having my own laundry machines, huh?

A lack of response works if you expect people to do the right thing, but the lack of response is now the axis upon which people do the wrong thing, and it's of course the weak and the vulnerable that get most to suffer from it.
Logged

Eschar

  • Bay Watcher
  • Not a Pathos alt
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4629 on: December 04, 2020, 02:38:20 pm »

low death rate means it kills more in the end, as it already has (surpassed its cousin SARS death toll 300 times)
Logged
"Continue struggling, laws of physics be darned."
 - NRDL
"What, are you stupid or something? Every one of the snake's bones is crushed! Its internal organs are torn apart! There is no way you can - (6) You resuscitate the snake."
- Gatleos

feelotraveller

  • Bay Watcher
  • regurgitating the world, one bite at a time
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4630 on: December 09, 2020, 11:15:11 am »

So there were a couple of cases of 'anaphylactic/anaphylactoid reactions' in the first day of the rollout of the pfizer/biontech vaccine, both in patients with a history of allergic reactions.

And separately a second cluster of cases of lions contracting covid has been announced to have occurred at Barcelona zoo.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 11:21:49 am by feelotraveller »
Logged

TamerVirus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Who cares
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4631 on: December 09, 2020, 11:22:25 am »

Hey remember when it was fringe internet weirdos freaking out and stocking up on food and masks while the main media narrative was that you shouldn't wear masks
But how about that flu, huh?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
What can mysteriously disappear can mysteriously reappear
*Shakes fist at TamerVirus*

Naxza

  • Bay Watcher
  • Wanderer of Broken Worlds
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4632 on: December 09, 2020, 03:59:06 pm »

So there were a couple of cases of 'anaphylactic/anaphylactoid reactions' in the first day of the rollout of the pfizer/biontech vaccine, both in patients with a history of allergic reactions.

And separately a second cluster of cases of lions contracting covid has been announced to have occurred at Barcelona zoo.

Is this based on allergies to other vaccines (chicken egg base, or however it is?), or allergies in general? It's probably not much to be concerned about if there's only a couple of cases, but I'm sure it'll be rattling around in my head somewhere when I do get my jab, having an unpleasant spread of allergies.
Logged

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4633 on: December 09, 2020, 04:40:54 pm »

Noting that this wasn't even at anaphylactive-shock level. The two (original, assuming there are no more) affected by this AE had pre-existing allergic susceptibility (both even carried the 'pens' needed to counter the worst effects).

This is not to say that something not encountered in thousands of trial-subjects[1] won't be shockingly common in the tens of millions of 'public rollout' doses, but I don't think you need to be too worried if you aren't already wary of such things. Especially with an overwhelming number of early doses necessarily being given in a major clinical environment where the cases that do arise are going to be spotted and treated so much more easily while the baseline on this latent risk is established.


[1] Who may have been selected/self-selected to be more than averagely unlikely to be allergically susceptible, but I'd be more worried if there was a possibility that a given part of the menstral cycle could be badly-reactive (which I doubt, in this case, but as illustration), because the odds are they didn't have enough female triallers to well establish any such cinnection/lack-thereof, yet that would be a vast number of the general population (increasing once it progresses down to lower-priority individuals, rather than the mix of front-line/otherise-vulnerable that's heavily loaded with the post-menopausal.  ...Just to run through my thinking on this, it likely has no relevence to this case.
Logged

nenjin

  • Bay Watcher
  • WHERE'S YOUR MOTIVATION!?!?
    • View Profile
Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread: COVID-19:What Wave is it Now? Edition
« Reply #4634 on: December 09, 2020, 04:42:28 pm »

Just saying, I've gone into full anaphylactic shock before (as in, needed to be hospitalized within 30 minutes or I would have stopped breathing, adrenaline injections, the whole 9 yards) and I don't have a history of allergic reactions.
Logged
Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Pages: 1 ... 307 308 [309] 310 311 ... 335