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Author Topic: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread  (Read 107671 times)

DerSchlund

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #180 on: August 14, 2020, 09:15:50 am »
Quote from: vjek on July 31, 2020, 10:23:24 am
Essentially, to make something like have magma appear on a given Z-level, you would ... you know, I have a post where I just did this..  :D
That shows you the math for a very thin world.  If you wanted magma deeper, then simply increasing the levels_above_layer settings where appropriate would accomplish that goal.

The actual Z-level that is the embark level will vary by world.  In worlds with an ocean depth, or an ocean at all, it will be different than without.
For that reason, most references you see in this thread or similar refer to the embark level (ground level, where the wagon appears in a 100% flat embark) when describing how high or deep something is.  As in 'such-and-such mountain was 120Z high' means 120Z higher than the embark level, which could be anywhere from 100-149. (off the top of my head, again, it will vary by world, iirc)

Sorry I'm confused... or rather I don't know....

So I have an example right here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see: "[LEVELS_ABOVE_LAYER_1:5]" and so on....
But when I embark, I have the first Cavern at z-lvl 94 and the 2. at Z-lvl (-2) ... und the first semi molten rock is at Z-lvl (-21).

So where is my mistake? How to make the world "thiner"?

Greetings, DerSchlund
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #181 on: August 14, 2020, 09:30:11 am »
I will generate that world later today and have a closer look, but at a glance, I would say it's due to "In worlds with an ocean depth, or an ocean at all, it will be different than without." that I mentioned previously.  Having both an ocean  (as low as elevation 1) and a peak (as high as elevation 400) means in that world, you could have hundreds of Z-levels of 'thickness' in the embarks, because that range is so large.

While it may not be what you're looking for, you can have worlds with a max elevation value of 301 (for dwarves) and a min elevation value of 299 (for elves, humans, goblins, everything else) and without oceans, peaks or volcanoes, it will certainly produce a thinner world.  I'm not saying that's what you must do, I'm just saying what's possible.
EDIT:
Your parameter set offers embarks with depths of 129-180, approximately, throughout your world.
Embarking on the east coast, where they are generally more shallow (129-133), still has ~100Z of stone layers before the caverns appear.
It's possible this is entirely due to the ocean/depth_1 being present in the world.

So, just to show you what I'm referring to above, I changed your parameters as follows: (and re-generated the world)
- removed peak requirement
- changed elevation min/max to 299/301
- removed elevation squares requirements

Now, the embark depths are in the 32-33 range, and there are -exactly- 5 Z layers of stone from the soil to the top of the caverns, in the few embarks I tested.
It's also worth noting you don't need a depth of 1 to get an ocean. You can get them with a depth of 99. (anything under 100)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2020, 01:26:30 pm by vjek »
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indyofcomo

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #182 on: August 14, 2020, 01:52:57 pm »
My apologies if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are the pros & cons of going big or small on world size and history length?
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #183 on: August 14, 2020, 02:09:49 pm »
Quote from: indyofcomo on August 14, 2020, 01:52:57 pm
My apologies if this isn't the best place to ask, but what are the pros & cons of going big or small on world size and history length?
In my experience, the pros are speed.  with a smaller world and fewer historical figures you typically get faster saves, faster loads, higher FPS.

The cons are mostly opinion, and vary depending on your goals.  If you want historical figures, not having them is a con. 
If you want to travel farther/longer, or have particular features in your world, sometimes a larger world is necessary.
However, for a certainty, a larger world with a huge number of historical figures is more like to have slower loads, slower saves, and lower FPS, all other things being equal.
In general, I find that if players are primarily interested in playing fortress mode, a massive world with 99% of it outside the range of the fort has no value, but YMMV.

You can, however, have massive worlds with no historical figures, and have reasonable FPS, and not super annoying load & save times.
Similarly, you can have a pocket world with insanely high numbers of historical figures and have ridiculously long save & load times, with abysmal FPS.
Once in fortress mode, pathfinding can crush an otherwise fine fort, as time passes, and various bugs and behaviors begin to appear.  Even things like the number of dead, or the number of items in a fort, or water flow, or magma flow.. taken to absurd extremes, each of these can crush a world down to single digit FPS.

Happily, DF allows you to experience the entire range of good to bad, within your own personal tolerance of good and bad.  :D 8)
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delphonso

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #184 on: August 14, 2020, 05:39:07 pm »
Yeah, the benefits of a small world are most notable in save/load. There's an impact on FPS, but usual fort stuff is a bigger impact on that, so it's not a big deal.

If you want to play adventure mode, a small world is 'easier'. Distances are shorter, it's easier to find people and stuff.

A larger world will have more history to dig through, though, just since it has more space for events to occur. If you like looking through Legends, a larger world should have more to look at
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Russell.s

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #185 on: August 21, 2020, 10:04:42 pm »
I have a request. Ages ago, back when undead were basically invincible, I generated a world with only one dwarf civ and embarked on a re-animating evil red sand desert, to fight back the tide of evil! Sadly I lost the save somewhere along the way.

I'd like to recreate the theme, if possible.

Essential:
Smaller to Medium sized world (don't mind the size), and if possible, a 'normal' looking world, so I can later adventure through
Embark site that re-animates the dead, ideally with a cliff face or mountainside to dig into.
no evil rains (I hate the blood rains, but evil clouds are fine)
One dwarf civ, ideally not prospering-- although a completely dead civ would also be pretty neat!

Desirable:
Steel or iron or bronze available
a deep embark
2 cavern layers instead of 3
Dwarf Civ has a cool name :P

Thank you all for your help :)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #186 on: August 22, 2020, 02:04:31 am »
@Russel.s

It's probably possible to hack the civ name, although it is a bit of work, as you'd have to negotiate the name structure.

Are you sure a dead civ is OK? Are you aware that they cannot raid (you can send squads out, but they'll never move from just off the embark and will never return)? Raiding is FUBARed anyway, on the other hand...
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Russell.s

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #187 on: August 22, 2020, 04:20:51 am »
Quote from: PatrikLundell on August 22, 2020, 02:04:31 am
@Russel.s

It's probably possible to hack the civ name, although it is a bit of work, as you'd have to negotiate the name structure.

Are you sure a dead civ is OK? Are you aware that they cannot raid (you can send squads out, but they'll never move from just off the embark and will never return)? Raiding is FUBARed anyway, on the other hand...

I wasn't aware of that restriction! In that case, just a low-pop civ would be fine :).
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Russell.s

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #188 on: August 23, 2020, 06:26:56 pm »
This is a cool world I've generated! Adding it so other people can use it if they want :).

It's a small world in which the dwarves never leave an isolated mountain range in the far north, thanks to being surrounded by tundra. This happens pretty consistently across every seed, thanks to The Teal Horns being one of the only non-evil mountain range on the map. In this particular seed the dwarven homeland is destroyed by elves in ~year 79. All civs are present.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Edited to ask: there are two other smaller, nearby mountain ranges on the map. They're pretty small, representing only 1-2 world tiles. I've not seen the dwarves embark on either of those mountain ranges during my runs of the seed. Does anyone know why? Is there a minimum size (or elevation?) mountains have to be to attract dwarves?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 09:06:32 pm by Russell.s »
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #189 on: August 24, 2020, 01:38:46 pm »
Quote from: Russell.s on August 21, 2020, 10:04:42 pm
I have a request. Ages ago, back when undead were basically invincible, I generated a world with only one dwarf civ and embarked on a re-animating evil red sand desert, to fight back the tide of evil! Sadly I lost the save somewhere along the way.

I'd like to recreate the theme, if possible.

Essential:
Smaller to Medium sized world (don't mind the size), and if possible, a 'normal' looking world, so I can later adventure through
Embark site that re-animates the dead, ideally with a cliff face or mountainside to dig into.
no evil rains (I hate the blood rains, but evil clouds are fine)
One dwarf civ, ideally not prospering-- although a completely dead civ would also be pretty neat!

Desirable:
Steel or iron or bronze available
a deep embark
2 cavern layers instead of 3
Dwarf Civ has a cool name :P

Thank you all for your help :)
This one should work..
Steel friendly (dolomite, magnetite, coal, lignite)
Sinister
Small World (33x33)
Reanimating Biome
Fire Clay
Sand
Light Aquifer
One Dwarven Civ, not dead
46 Z Levels from the Embark to SMR Sea
Two Caverns
You should be able keep the world seed and randomize the other seeds for other features like more civs or whatever other thing you want.
Spoiler: russell-s1 (click to show/hide)
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Russell.s

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #190 on: August 25, 2020, 04:47:04 pm »
Quote from: vjek on August 24, 2020, 01:38:46 pm
This one should work..
Steel friendly (dolomite, magnetite, coal, lignite)
Sinister
Small World (33x33)
Reanimating Biome
Fire Clay
Sand
Light Aquifer
One Dwarven Civ, not dead
46 Z Levels from the Embark to SMR Sea
Two Caverns
You should be able keep the world seed and randomize the other seeds for other features like more civs or whatever other thing you want.
Spoiler: russell-s1 (click to show/hide)

Thank you so kindly vjek! I'm continuously impressed by work in this thread and the previous worldgen threads. You are definitely a Legendary World Crafter by now :)
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BrisoS

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #191 on: October 12, 2020, 06:33:15 pm »
Hi!

I haven't played DF in years and just getting back into it. And I have a question - the couple worldgens I found so far seemed to have particular params that don't seem to be "default" settings. I might be wrong but I listed two examples below. I'm just concerned about getting too far into a fortress before realizing the embark is missing stuff I did not realize I wanted to play with.

This is Vjek's particular message I am looking at: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175538.msg8092523#msg8092523

[GENERATE_DIVINE_MATERIALS:0] - I don't think these existed when I last played. Is this typically off by default? Sounds like fun/rare materials I might want to play with down the line, right?

[MEGABEAST_CAP:0] (and others like titans and semi's off as well) - Not saying I'm ready to duel Godzilla quite yet but I think I remember those being on by default - right?
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BrisoS

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #192 on: October 12, 2020, 06:43:16 pm »
Oh and my request - in case that's simpler than explaining the worldgen parameters to me:


My request - I basically want an embark that won't send me crying back to playing Candyland on my first try:

"Basic" (I think) beginner friendly embark request:

Not too harsh biomes. Sinister might be ok (insert hesitant cough here).
-Nearby trader civs (Dwarf/Elves/Humans)
-Nearby Gobs would be great too.
-Surface Magma/Volcano (height doens't matter)
-River
-Trees/Fruit trees
-Standard Ore "rich-enough" (steel friendly I think is the term I've seen used for Iron/Coal/Flux?)
-Underground soil/sand/clay in case I want to farm beneath the surface
-I like to dig my fortress into cliffs rather than build on the surface.
-Not sure if I can choose to manually turn off Aquifers and if that would affect the worldgen. I don't mind them if they don't span the entire map.
-Embark size doesn't matter too much for me performance wise.

Thank you very much!

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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #193 on: October 12, 2020, 07:44:22 pm »
The parameters you quote above, BrisoS, are definitely not the default.  Most of the worldgens in this thread are very far from the default.
In the case of those two you mention, in fortress mode, the divine metals (to the best of my knowledge) have very little or no impact.  No reason to have them if they have no value, imo.
megabeasts and semi-megabeasts have the potential to wipe out civs or affect civ growth or populations.  In some worlds, they are used to great effect to ensure a civ or all civs are dead or gone.  In some, their lack is set to ensure some survive.
You can certainly change any and all parameters yourself to determine how they affect the outcome.  That's all part of the fun. :)

Your request isn't anything too particularly difficult, but just one query about aquifers, as it's been a few years since you've played..
Currently, in 47.04, aquifers are extremely easy to deal with.  They're not the embark-killers they were in the past, so given that, would it be fair to say you don't particularly care if there is an aquifer or not, as they are trivially breached and utilized now?  I only ask because it makes finding an embark that much easier if it's not a concern. Most people don't care, I'm just making sure.

EDIT: Also, just to make sure, it must be a river, and can't be a brook?  A brook makes it trivial, a river will take some time.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2020, 08:22:51 pm by vjek »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #194 on: October 13, 2020, 03:35:08 am »
To elaborate on vjek's comment on aquifers:

Aquifers have been split into heavy aquifers and light aquifers, where the heavy ones are identical to the old ones, while the light ones trickle water, making them easy to negotiate (you can still screw up, but in doing so you probably realize what you did wrong and can correct it by digging a new staircase and not repeat the mistakes, and it's possible to "repair" the bugged up one, so you don't have to abandon the fortress due to flooding or anything like that).
About 1/20 of the aquifers are heavy, while the rest of them are light (i.e. 95%).

Also note that DF's pre embark aquifer indication is bugged, where the SW half of the tile doesn't show any aquifers regardless of whether any are present or not.

The reason divine metals are irrelevant to fortresses is that they can be acquired only in adventure mode by visiting the relevant structure, or by embarking on top of such a structure (and DF does not natively show any indications of where these are, so happening on them by chance has a very low probability). Supposedly (I have no first hand experience) wresting the metal from its previous owners is not trivial and not something you'd want to do unprepared and by accident. Rumors claim that bugged trading logic can cause elves to bring very small amounts of divine metal as musical instrument parts, but all the ones I've seen have been made of divine cloth, never metal.
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