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Author Topic: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread  (Read 108081 times)

Fleeting Frames

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #90 on: May 14, 2020, 07:59:23 am »
Setting temps out of 0-100 range does have an effect; here's a desert example.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2020, 08:14:41 am »
For dwarven civs, change the min subterranean water to 15 to get enough to grow crops consistently.
As far as civ count goes, it varies based on the civ that you're trying to get.  But, presuming it's dwarven civs again, they need a very specific set of features before a civ will be placed.
In general, savagery, evil, and what is adjacent to the mountain biome are all the most common reasons for a lack of dwarven civs.
Put another way, if you make your world purely neutral (no good/evil), completely calm (no savagery), and have single embark-tile-size mountains/ranges surrounded by non-mountains, you can get a tremendous number of dwarven civs.

Regarding temperatures, you can have worlds with either or both -1000 or +1000, but at least in the past, there were some requirements regarding poles or no poles to get those extremes.  But certainly, you can have worlds that have so much cold damage that it kills everything/destroys everything in under a week, and so much heat damage that rivers are vaporized as they flow and the fat melts off of all creatures that have it in a few ticks.  In general, higher heat is more lethal than severe cold, but cold damage will destroy everything non-metal (including almost all organics).
Wandering/wild animals and bees/bugs/vermin also have different spawn ranges regarding temperature.  It's also important to note that what you get for in-game temperatures is not the same scale as what you define with in worldgen.  Degrees Urist is not the same as worldgen degrees, is what I mean by that.  From my notes -100 worldgen is ~9924'U, depending on a few factors, while -50 worldgen is ~9961'U.  On the plus side, 300 worldgen ends up with ~10223'U on the embark.
I'm sure there's a conversion formula.. yep.
EDIT:
Also, here's a worldgen that creates 100 dwarven civs in a pocket world, as an example:
Spoiler: many-dorfcivs (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 08:39:46 am by vjek »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #92 on: May 14, 2020, 11:55:11 am »
There are at least two factors affecting PSV temperatures, namely latitude and elevation. The latitude effect is disabled when there are no latitudes (i.e. no poles), while the temperature decreases as the elevation increases. Past comments by vjek indicate that there is some limiting temperature effects in effect in worlds with poles that are worked around by using worlds without poles (e.g. used for vjek's scorching/freezing hell embarks).
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knutor

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2020, 10:33:14 pm »
Thank you for your help and answers. Woah you have me beat in RESEARCH.

Upping min cavern water permitted my +5 leep up in all Civs, reporting no rejects in Sm Region with 15 Civ, got to 30 before rejecting, but 15 will do. Some nobility even produce heirs, this is good for intrigue. Surface drama in history rolls out to 992. Lowered the megabeasts, aswell, to keep them alive. But I really enjoy semimegas, this is a hard compromise, its still a high figure, some pair off.  Shaved off the y axis drainage, only and put in a N pole. Worlds are looking more and more habital yet able to trade, a desired goal. 1000 erosion cycle ruins peaks, but makes many flatish embark sites. Lotsa flatish embark sites is a must have with addition of surface trees roots.

update

The reduction of demon types, helped curb the goblin spread and takeover, in 990 yr history. These new creature raws for goblins look tweaked. Their max abilities in some abilities looks superdwarfy. Curious if thats as designed, or just a frivolous rebalancing fix.

Going with this last sm region, I think. Drainage is off, but with erosion cap'd I am happy without oceans and lakes, I guess the humans will be okay. Water and ice always seemed like a wasteful use of a possible embark space. Temperatures and elevation are right, much kudos and thanks to the posters and research done in this thread. Carrying over min/max meshing in volcanism from old world gens from '17, makes for nice surprising discoveries under the surface. The only problem, I have, just like in '17 is with the new stuff. Well new back then, to me, these days vampies and wrrewolves not new.

Not a fan of reassigning new nobles to their habitats each fullmoon. Capt of grd, especially, have no idea how his death hurts his inmates. dfHack makes this simpler, but then I start using imore cheats as a crutch. Also, the stress ontop of the cloak and dagger vampire killings in bunkrooms, just not happening. Shaved curses back to 1. Defaults 22 or 11, which makes no good sense to me. In my eyes, a legendary pet trainer, aughta be able to control a were vermin type. Not a bear or wolf, but these werehamsters, scaring CIVs with picks? A dorf should be able to squash a werehamster with nearest object, using untrained Object Use or Throw item.

Ill try and share some pics and embark stats.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2020, 12:09:01 am by knutor »
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #94 on: May 19, 2020, 02:36:34 pm »
Performed a little cavern science today, and discovered the following:
worldgen for context..
Spoiler: odd caverns (click to show/hide)
Most people are familiar with what occurs normally or naturally in the caverns.  There are generally pools of water, fungus trees, and shrubs of varying kinds, with the crops required by a dwarven civ (like pigtails, plump helmets, quarry bushes, and similar).
How to get those is pretty straightforward, set your cavern water to a reasonably high value, you get the crops you need, all good.
From time to time, however, you'll find a cavern that has 0-9 water in it, and there are no shrubs.  Some people call these "Dry Caverns".  The wiki says "Any cavern layer without a pool of water will have only muddy dense floor fungus, and no plants or trees except blood thorns."
Yet, there are two extra types, that aren't that well documented.

The "no fungus trees, but shrubs" and "no trees, no shrubs, brown hell" variants.
Today, using the worldgen above, I managed to find examples of these and posit a theory as to the scenarios that lead to their creation.
It seems like any time there is a wet/dry underground region adjacency, there is a chance one of these two variants can be created.
At the edges of each underground biome (on the pre-embark map) where they meet, you can get one of these:
No Trees, No Shrubs, Embark location
No Trees, No Shrubs, Underground Screenshot
No Trees, Yes Shrubs, Embark location
No Trees, Yes Shrubs, Underground Screenshot
So, if you ever wanted to create a challenge embark with nothing in the caverns, or something very specific, with respect to trees, shrubs, or the lack of either or both, now you can.  8)

Thanks to PatrikLundell who pointed me in the right direction to gather this information..
Spoiler: underground_region_data (click to show/hide)
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #95 on: May 19, 2020, 05:59:45 pm »
The wiki is wrong if you interpret it to mean embark. If you interpret it to mean a whole underground region it's probably correct. If you set your water world gen parameters reasonably low it's not unusual to get normal caverns without any source of water in them.

The "no trees, but shrubs" variant ought to appear occasionally, in particular for the first cavern, as there's normally a percentage chance for any particular valid plant/creature to be present at a region, and there are only two valid trees for the first cavern. You'll see this random tree presence particularly often with Nether-Cap, as it's often absent. I'd assume it has a lower probability than the other trees to appear. I've also seen cases of one of the various underground crops missing.

There have also been cases where it appears caverns have been completely muddy, with no floor fungi and no spores released when breached.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #96 on: May 20, 2020, 05:07:23 pm »
Some high volume candy embarks.
I haven't seen a spire extend to the second cavern (only to the top of the third) in a long while.  That being the case, this worldgen only maxxes out layers 4 and 5.
The last one (the 4x3) has over 200Z of a solid candy spire, among several.  41k total, in all spires for that one embark.
Spoiler: some candy embarks (click to show/hide)
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knutor

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #97 on: May 20, 2020, 06:53:13 pm »
1,2,3, I always thought were caverns. 4, Magma, 5, Hell. Not sure, much about Hell, as I usually reroll forts, at about the time it comes to exploring Hell. Is it even safe down there for miners to mine candy, under magma layers, ya know, in Hell?
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #98 on: May 20, 2020, 06:58:50 pm »
"Above Layer 5" is the depth of the SMR sea, where the bulk of adamantine spires are found, regardless of caverns.
Technically, there is no candy in the circus.  It always stops exactly one Z level above it. 
Just to be clear, above, when referring to Layers 4 & 5, I mean the lines in the worldgen parameters with the text "Above Layer 4" and "Above Layer 5".
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knutor

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #99 on: May 20, 2020, 07:27:54 pm »
yup, same lines in worldgen, 1-5. Ive gotten some deep z-levels, down there, with it set to single digit depths. Hard to predict underground.

Would Drycaverns have Cave Toads and Cave Crocs? Those water breaks along the edge, seem to attract swimmers, Orms like um. But not sure if a water break is mandatory. A Bat only visiting cavern would be nice.

Good research. TY
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #100 on: May 21, 2020, 02:22:56 am »
Muddy caverns have a limited selection of wildlife, while both toads and crocs appear in ordinary caverns that just haven't got any local sources of water.

I agree it's best to clarify references as "above layer", to avoid confusion.

If you're set on having bats as the only wildlife in a cavern you probably have to hack the population, e.g. with the Biome Manipulator http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.msg7495705#msg7495705, as searching for natural cases of it will likely take far more time than you've got.
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thefinn

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #101 on: May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am »
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 04:59:14 am by thefinn »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #102 on: May 21, 2020, 07:29:44 am »
Quote from: thefinn on May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
It seems you get more Z levels in uneven terrain, and possibly even more at high elevations. The advance world gen way is to increase the distance between layers to get more Z levels between them. I set the number of levels above the first cavern to 15, for instance, to get some nice space for a fortress.

The LNP doesn't affect world gen, but elves are generally weak when it comes to hostile neighbors, and probably titans (they ought to be ignored by the animal/organic megabeasts, but I don't know if that's the case). Elves only spawn and settle in forests (except when conquering settlements), so you need to make sure your world gen parameters allows for forests. They you have to select your embark to be in range of the races you want as neighbors (shown pre embark by using TAB to switch what's displayed: it hides kobolds, though).
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #103 on: May 21, 2020, 08:53:09 am »
Quote from: thefinn on May 21, 2020, 04:18:43 am
Question: How do I get maps with more Z-levels?

I've read around that you can get 400+ Z-levels on maps if you know how, but I can't find any explanations as to how?!

Also now with lazy newb pack - I cannot seem to get elves on the embark - are they broken for trade caravans at the moment?
Two ways that I know of.  Utilizing terrain above the embark level, and manually specifying the Z-Levels in the "Above Layer" settings.
Above Ground gives you more 'air' above the embark.  Doesn't have any significance other than tree height, if you embark with trees.
The rest affect how thick the world is (like a cake or pancake). If you are looking for more Z-Levels between the embark layer and the top of the magma, increase all the values of "Z Levels Above Layer 1" through "Z Levels Above Layer 4" to whatever value you want.  Change them all to 100, and voila, you should see ~400 Z-levels from Embark to Magma.
Example world:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At the south edge, embark depth is ~490.  Yet, if you choose an embark where the mountains meet the plains in the north, embarks are ~520 deep.
Pushing this idea further.. we can get an embark that is ~550 with a mountain peak to a plain..
Spoiler: thicker world (click to show/hide)
top of the 'air': 295
first layer of material/stone in the tallest spire: 280
embark layer: 149 (that's a 131 Z spire, above the embark layer, in the open air above ground)
top of the first cavern layer: 40
top of the second cavern layer: -64
top of the third cavern layer: -168
top of magma layer: -272
Total embark depth from highest outdoor/outside stone to magma: 552 (280 to -272)
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thefinn

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #104 on: May 22, 2020, 01:47:43 am »
Nice, thanks for the replies.

I fixed this with the levels spacer entries. I had thought this was just to do with caverns. Didn't realise it was for different stone types.
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