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Author Topic: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread  (Read 106611 times)

BrisoS

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #195 on: October 15, 2020, 12:02:23 pm »

Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine.

One last question if I may - some of the worldgen seem to be at minimum size (17x17) - does that affect gameplay from my one fortress point of view? Or is it playable just like any larger size?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #196 on: October 15, 2020, 02:17:44 pm »

The advantage of a small world is that the rest of the world has a smaller impact than a larger/busier one. Disadvantages of minimum size worlds are (not exhaustive list):
- They're brittle, i.e. it's easy for races to be wiped out or dominate the world with longer histories
- They can have trouble generating visitors to your fortress (my total sum of visitors in such worlds is 1, but others have been more successful).
- It's hard to be out of range of an undesirable civ without it being unreachable (i.e. on a different land mass). Contact range is 20 tiles, while world size is 17, meaning you need mountains in between to extend the range, and those mountains have to extend the range for all of the civ's sites.
- Small worlds means a small selection of possible sites, making the chance of a site matching a high number of requirements much less likely to exist in a small world than in a large one.
- Dry Broadleaf forests can only exist on worlds that have a height of 129 or 257 (I'm not sure whether the limit is 66 or 130 for non standard dimensions). The width does not matter, though.
- There's a significant risk you can't find high population enemy sites that would provide armies to attack you, be they other civs or necro towers. If you do find these, however, the sites would behave the same as in a larger world.

What size to aim for is really dependent on what you're after. If you want to concentrate on building your fortress with only your migrants and the yearly caravan from your civ as external contacts and visitors (including villains) are unwanted complications, the smallest size is definitely a good choice as it cuts away stuff you don't care about anyway.
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vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #197 on: October 15, 2020, 08:28:24 pm »

Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine. ...
Here's two that match, BrisoS.

3x3 Temperate Shrubland + Mountain, volcano, brook
Caldera is to the SW, and is the high point in the embark area.
Steel friendly, sand, clay, trees, neighbors, etc, as you've outlined.  No Aquifer.
Spoiler: BrisoS1 (click to show/hide)

Second one.. 3x3 Temperate Conifer Forest + Mountain (you can adjust the embark to the east if you want less brook and more trees)
The hillside is on the north part of this embark, with the magma of the volcano being just below the embark level.
Similar stone/mineral features as the first, which you can compare in the prospect below. 
This one has a partial aquifer, it doesn't extend east and west adjacent to the volcano.
Spoiler: BrisoS2 (click to show/hide)

Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #198 on: October 20, 2020, 01:19:08 am »

How generate world that have glacier goblins with blizzard men and plain goblins with ogres?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #199 on: October 20, 2020, 02:16:15 am »

How generate world that have glacier goblins with blizzard men and plain goblins with ogres?
You'd probably have to change the entity raw to copy the goblins into a second instance (with a different name), and modify the first one to start on glaciers exclusively and the second one to start on plains exclusively.

I've modified my (single) goblin entity to start on glaciers exclusively both to give them blizzard men and to get them to spawn in specific places in my PSV world (preventing them from taking over the world most of the time). By ensuring there are nearby plains with ogres I an often get the dark tower near my designated embark location to have blizzard men, trolls, and ogres.
Note that I've also hacked the biomes during world gen to ensure blizzard men and ogres are available in their biomes.
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BrisoS

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #200 on: October 20, 2020, 04:44:41 pm »

Thanks for the clarifications! Based on your recommendations having Aquifers and Brook instead of river sounds just fine. ...
Here's two that match, BrisoS.

3x3 Temperate Shrubland + Mountain, volcano, brook
Caldera is to the SW, and is the high point in the embark area.
Steel friendly, sand, clay, trees, neighbors, etc, as you've outlined.  No Aquifer.
Spoiler: BrisoS1 (click to show/hide)

Second one.. 3x3 Temperate Conifer Forest + Mountain (you can adjust the embark to the east if you want less brook and more trees)
The hillside is on the north part of this embark, with the magma of the volcano being just below the embark level.
Similar stone/mineral features as the first, which you can compare in the prospect below. 
This one has a partial aquifer, it doesn't extend east and west adjacent to the volcano.
Spoiler: BrisoS2 (click to show/hide)

I forgot to came back to say thank you. I went for #2 so I have a chance to get over my fear of aquifers at some point :D

Much appreciated!
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Golbolco

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #201 on: October 28, 2020, 11:43:07 am »

What's the minimum amount of years needed to pass during generation for towers to start forming? Part of my dream embark is being cozied next to all the civilizations and a tower for lots of trading, ambushes, and sieges.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #202 on: October 28, 2020, 02:57:43 pm »

What's the minimum amount of years needed to pass during generation for towers to start forming? Part of my dream embark is being cozied next to all the civilizations and a tower for lots of trading, ambushes, and sieges.
That's not really a useful question. The answer is probably 0 or 1, but the probability for it to happen that early is probably fairly or very low. What I think you actually want is a typical number of years where there is a good chance for the desired criteria to be met, and that, in turn, depends very much on the world. My guess would be 50 years for a somewhat poor probability, with 100 for a better one.
Also note that the presence of a tower is in no way a guarantee for sieges. Firstly, most towers have fairly slow populations, so even if they do attack you exclusively, they tend to run out of cold bodies to send after 3-4 sieges. Furthermore, their strategic thinking tends to be absolutely horrible, so they tend to make an enemy of every civ within range, and thus tend to be wiped out fairly quickly after embark.
Ambushes don't really happen to any extent. You may get lucky to get kobolds that may send a whopping 3 characters to attempt to steal from you, and necro sieges may contain a small number of necromancers that try to sneak in. Goblin snatchers can similarly accompany sieges, which, like necros, are self defeating as most victims tend to pull together their defenses when a siege arrive, and the buggers don't have the smarts to arrive without announcing a siege, it seems. Elves can supposedly rarely mount proper ambushes, although I've never actually been at war with them.
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Eric Blank

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #203 on: October 28, 2020, 05:58:29 pm »

I'd aim for 200-300 years, as it increases the likelihood of towers popping up and the potential number of bodies they possess, since they accumulate them after battles in WG.
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I make Spellcrafts!
I have no idea where anything is. I have no idea what anything does. This is not merely a madhouse designed by a madman, but a madhouse designed by many madmen, each with an intense hatred for the previous madman's unique flavour of madness.

vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #204 on: October 28, 2020, 07:53:57 pm »

Yep, somewhere between 200 and 1000 years apparently works pretty well.  8)

vjek

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #205 on: November 16, 2020, 12:25:18 am »

Here's a challenging world and two challenging embarks.

The world/embark(s) feature:
A 2x2 embark area.
Dead Civ. No-one is coming to help you, beyond the two starting waves of migrants, no caravans.
A Dry Cavern.  Just bloodthorn trees.  No water, shrubs, or plants.
One Cavern, rather than two or three.
No surface trees.
No surface vegetation.
No surface water.
All wild animals entering the embark are undead/animated corpses.
The embark is Untamed Wilds + Evil (Terrifying), so you'll get giant animals as well as animal people, all as undead/animated corpses.
The embark region features reanimation of the recently deceased.
Sand
Steel Friendly: iron bearing ore, flux, coal+lignite (2000+ of each)
Magma within 14 Z-levels of the embark level.
A 'within embark range' Necromancer Tower.
No humans, elves, kobolds, titans, megabeasts, semi-megabeasts, clowns or candy.
Also, no access to pig tails (seeds or otherwise) from the dead civ.

The first embark has no aquifer, and as a result, no water of any kind.  Not on the surface, not in an aquifer, not in the caverns.
The second embark has a tiny aquifer, for those who would like the easier challenge of having a water source present.
Otherwise, the embarks are in the same region, "The Dunes of Sullying", and both should play in Fortress Mode as mostly identical.
To ensure this works as expected, I've taken this parameter set, edited only the worldgen.txt file in a brand new install of DF 47.04, generated the world, and embarked in the indicated locations.  Everything works as anticipated on Windows 10.
However, I've also put a .7z of the generated world on DFFD here, which should work cross-platform in the same version, if it doesn't generate for you.

If you're looking for a play-through goal, try and build an above ground 3+ storey fort in either embark.  :o 8) :D

MrNihil

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #206 on: November 23, 2020, 06:16:30 am »

I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #207 on: November 23, 2020, 07:34:08 am »

I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
Dwarves require mountains to start in, humans require plains, and elves require forests, while goblins can start anywhere. Too high evilness will block everyone. Humans seem to have a lower tolerance for evilness than the others. Too high a savagery is a problem for humans.
Thus, you can't make the world completely frozen if you want humans and/or elves.

It can also be noted that if your focus is fortress mode, it doesn't really matter to your fortress what the rest of the world looks like: you only see your embark, although raiding (when it doesn't crash your save) and trade can bring biome dependent produce into your fortress, which gives you a small taste of other biomes. Spending time to adjust the whole world when you really only want your possible embark locations to match some criteria can be overkill, and it might be better to try to focus on getting as many acceptable embark locations as possible in order to find one or two that is good.
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MrNihil

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #208 on: November 23, 2020, 10:31:16 am »

I want to make a completely cold (icy) pocket world with scattered volcanoes. There are many necromancers, many megabeasts and other evil spirits. An active existence of civilizations or at least races is desirable.

P.S. Are there any clear guides for creating worlds? Excuse me, I'm a foreigner, I write from Google Translator. Thanks in advance
Dwarves require mountains to start in, humans require plains, and elves require forests, while goblins can start anywhere. Too high evilness will block everyone. Humans seem to have a lower tolerance for evilness than the others. Too high a savagery is a problem for humans.
Thus, you can't make the world completely frozen if you want humans and/or elves.

It can also be noted that if your focus is fortress mode, it doesn't really matter to your fortress what the rest of the world looks like: you only see your embark, although raiding (when it doesn't crash your save) and trade can bring biome dependent produce into your fortress, which gives you a small taste of other biomes. Spending time to adjust the whole world when you really only want your possible embark locations to match some criteria can be overkill, and it might be better to try to focus on getting as many acceptable embark locations as possible in order to find one or two that is good.

It is possible that I wrote it wrong somehow. Forgive me my english. The point of my question (hidden?) Was that I cannot, i.e. I do not have the necessary skills to create the above world. And I would like to "order" in a friendly way from someone who knows a ready-made template for generating the world. All templates that I tried didn't work for the .47 version unfortunately.

For elves to be, it is necessary, I suppose, to make them "southern tropics"? A special strip of forests in the south or north?

P.S. If you have a working template, then I would greatly appreciate it. Once again I apologize for my bad English ...
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PatrikLundell

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Re: DF v0.47.01+ Worldgen Cookbook Thread
« Reply #209 on: November 23, 2020, 11:05:51 am »

It's good you returned with a clarification. It came across as a general question rather than a request. I would probably have said something like "Could someone please provide me with a world with these characteristics?".

The English being poor is not a big problem. Sure, it can sometimes come across incorrectly, but clarifications can fix that.

I don't have any suitable world, but there is a very frequent contributor to this thread who is known to whip up worlds to match requests...

Elves can live in any kind of forest, so a Taiga would work. However, a single pole world (a pole either to the north or to the south, with an equator at the other end) would allow warmer climates near the equator while still making most of the world cold.

I don't expect you to have any immediate use of this information, but advanced world generation can either use a template where the world creator adjusts parameters, resulting in various somewhat normal looking worlds, or use PSV worlds (PreSet Values), where the parameters for each world tile are specified in advance, rather than generated by the game.
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