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Author Topic: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal  (Read 4475 times)

IndigoFenix

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2020, 01:14:32 pm »
All generated necromancers can make ghouls, but only a very small number actually will because ghoul-making is tied to some very finicky combination of worldgen circumstances.  On the plus side, it looks like towers are not necessary for the creation of ghouls, so you can make secrets that raise intelligent undead without zombies being involved, but the chances of it happening in any given world is very low.
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JesterHell696

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2020, 12:55:22 am »
Quote from: IndigoFenix on March 01, 2020, 01:14:32 pm
All generated necromancers can make ghouls, but only a very small number actually will because ghoul-making is tied to some very finicky combination of worldgen circumstances.  On the plus side, it looks like towers are not necessary for the creation of ghouls, so you can make secrets that raise intelligent undead without zombies being involved, but the chances of it happening in any given world is very low.

Really? because while I haven't tested it specifically some necromancers have specific ghoul experiment interaction and others don't, while extracting some secrets I wanted to look though I saw a special interaction for making ghouls that not every necromancer has, is this interaction useless?

Here are secrets 19 and 20, 20 has a ghoul interaction but 19 does not, both where taken from the same world.dat.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The only change between these two examples and what was in the world.dat is that I cleaned this up a little bit so it was not just one giant mess like this.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

But from my observations not every secret has a ghoul interaction or the [NIGHT_CREATURE_EXPERIMENTER] tags for their necromancers, secret 13 vs secret 16 in my OP, 13 has the  [NIGHT_CREATURE_EXPERIMENTER] tag but 16 does not, also of mild interest is that all secrets that have summoning also have the nightmares sphere so it would seem that the spheres are taken into account when deciding what interaction to generate for a secret.
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Taras

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2020, 07:48:17 am »
Quote from: IndigoFenix on March 01, 2020, 01:01:54 pm
I've found that the most reliable way of getting loads of secrets is to not apply a SPHERE token at all.  It seems that no SPHERE is functionally equivalent to any sphere and any god can give it.
How make secrets from meagbeasts? If I not want add gods to goblin civ.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2020, 09:58:27 am »
Quote from: Taras on March 02, 2020, 07:48:17 am
Quote from: IndigoFenix on March 01, 2020, 01:01:54 pm
I've found that the most reliable way of getting loads of secrets is to not apply a SPHERE token at all.  It seems that no SPHERE is functionally equivalent to any sphere and any god can give it.
How make secrets from meagbeasts? If I not want add gods to goblin civ.

Demon leaders will sometimes use secret interactions innately - Toady says that SUPERNATURAL_LEARNING_POSSIBLE means that demons will sometimes know secrets if they share the same sphere.  I have also seen demons using modded secrets without any sphere, so the "no sphere equals every sphere" seems to apply here as well.  However the only way for them to actually pass it to another creature is if they happen to write a book containing the secret, and this is an incredibly rare occurrence.  I have seen a modded (talking) dragon write a book containing a modded firebending secret once, so presumably everything that applies to demons also applies to megabeasts that take over civs.

It seems that most of the things that are thought of as possible work, the problem is that they happen incredibly infrequently and there is to my knowledge no way of making them more common.  I've tried giving megabeasts natural WRITING skill but it doesn't seem to make them any more likely to write books.
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TheFlame52

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2020, 03:54:35 pm »
I once saw a titan give away a modded secret of nature to an elf that started worshipping it, so it's not even restricted to intelligent beings.
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gnome

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2020, 05:39:13 am »
Killed an Ettin in a cave the other day that was holding a slab that contained the secrets of life and death.



Just curious, has anyone put out any mods that focus solely on increasing the number of secrets obtainable? I see a lot of mods flying around that contain extra magic stuff but then also heaps of extra content. Thing is I actually really like DF vanilla but I wouldnt mind throwing a fire spell into the mix or something without having to also add 16 civs and 80 different extra creatures to the game
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TheFlame52

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Re: Not All Secrets are Generated Equal
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2020, 05:55:34 pm »
You know, I've been thinking about making a mod that adds like 5 versions of pyromancy. Maybe some other secrets. Best part is, I can probably write it so that it's only a single file in size. Good to know there's some demand for such a mod.
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