Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: map rewriting  (Read 1593 times)

FrankVill

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
map rewriting
« on: April 03, 2020, 05:20:11 pm »

Hi there,

I have often read comments on FotF on this issue in both answers and questions. But I achieve nothing beyond grasping slight notions of why Toady hopes to rewrite the map one day.
Could someone explain to me what is the objective or reason that justifies the rewriting? What are the current limitations or errors? What improvements or possibilities does he hope to achieve in the future?

I know this topic has been dealt with often and those of you who know may be lazy to answer, hehe. If so, I would be happy if you can tell me where I could get all this information. Thank you.
Logged

mko

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: map rewriting
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2020, 05:44:46 pm »

See http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html and https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22map%20rewrite%22%20dwarf%20fortress

Quote
necessary map rewrite, a key part of the initial myth/magic release which will unavoidably take a long time, no matter how the rest can be portioned between releases.
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: map rewriting
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2020, 06:34:12 pm »

Toady talks a little about the map rewrite during the interview from a week or two back, currently linked at the top of the devlog. Basically the map code was written 20 years ago, is a mess and is limiting what can be done with the game (flexibility of site types, tracking of underground movement, inability to make big terrain changes (volcanic eruption, meteor strike, etc).

https://literate-gamer.zencast.website/episodes/172

The main problem with the rewrite is that all it does is "make many things possible" so it's 6-months to 1-year's work in which nothing visibly changes. That's why it's set to be part of the Mythgen "Big Wait" update (in which many things about the game visibly change, thanks to the map rewrite).
« Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 06:35:43 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

therahedwig

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • wolthera.info
Re: map rewriting
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2020, 08:52:49 am »

To expand the previous answers, if you search the fotf threads for the map rewrite, there's a number of problems relating to the main issue of DF having z-levels, but the worldgen mostly seeing those z-levels as completely separate. These problems include... :

1. Underground travel is not just hard for the player adventurer, but also for the AI, to the point that this is the main reason megabeasts teleport to your fort. Forgotten Beasts in particular just can't navigate the underground caverns.
2. 3d veins, underground rivers and other 3d geological features (better volcanos for instance) are really difficult to code right now.
3. Dwarf forts are really hard to generate properly, forts often generating without an access, and placement of rooms being very flakey.
4. The overlap of features being really bad. My adventurers have visited a number of hamlets which overlapped with volcanos in rather disastrous ways.

The mythgen itself also has certain needs. For example, if the mythgen says that there is a huge tree in the center of the world where all living creatures came from, DF currently isn't really capable of generating that tree. Other things mentioned here are seperate planes, like the afterlife, or having the worlds themselves be 3d, like consisting of several chained up cubes.

On top of that, magic and gods kinda aren't that impressive without natural disasters, so volcano eruptions, typhoons, tsunamis, meteors crashing down, and all that requires both the worldmap and the playmap to be able to handle changes. This also ties in with the idea of floating continents and moving fortress sections.

So, right now the idea is to change the way the game thinks about z-levels and the placement of features (which will also bring some other possibilities like being able to see outside the current game map), but the thing is that this happens like a thousand times over the whole code. So it's a very boring thing to do that also won't really show the results of it without a ton of extra work.

I remember the world activation release was received really poorly as all people could see was sieges being bugged, but now we've got the new civ screen, travelers and villains it is much more obvious what that initial release was setting up for. So it makes sense to me when Toady indicates he wants to integrate mythgen, do the map rewrite and at the least one or two things that obviously cannot be done in the current DF (I think the primary candidate is floating continents) and have them all in one single release cycle.
Logged
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 Alternate detailed and darker tiles for stonesense. Now with all ores!

FrankVill

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: map rewriting
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 07:14:37 am »

Thank you very much for the answers. It has been very interesting to investigate the reasons that lead to rewriting. One of the things that excites me the most about this game is to follow its development closely, but there are so many details that sometimes it is easy to miss.
As for the podcast, unfortunately my level of English is not yet enough to understand what they speak.
Logged