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[Rolan7]

Veganism:  Surely we should not harm other beings.  For all we know, their pain is like our pain - many of them act the same way.

Vegetarianism: There is some point between beings whose feelings matter, and those who don't.

Me: I consume the meat of murdered beings, but I do so relatively rarely.  I appreciate those who died for me, every time I eat meat.

Discuss.

[delphonso]

I haven't eaten meat for about 10 years, except the occasional mistake. I do it on ethical grounds, but tell people it's ecological because that's easier.

[Rolan7]

I say there's nothing wrong with eating meat as long as one appreciates it.
And certain cultures consume far more meat than is justifiable.

[WealthyRadish]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

[nenjin]

Life feeds off of life. Even plants murder other plants and steal available nutrients so they can continue to flourish while the others wither and die.

My only meat-eating regret is that it has a pretty big ecological impact on the planet and I wish we could produce meat more ethically and bio-sustainably. I don't know if animals raised more ethically are better for us overall, but that's the claim some make.

And for me personally, after a solid ~15 years of just not really eating red meat, in the last 4 years of packing away red meat I feel more alive, strong and vital than most of my life as a young and middle aged adult. I honor the sacrifices made by the creatures we raise for their meat, and I'd like to think some part of them lives on in my muscles.

[Quaksna]

Personally I can't comprehend how someone can live without meat, but, if you wish, go for it! That's pretty much my view on the matter...

You see, we Catholics have a certain hierarchy when it comes to living beings.

Plants - they live, they grow, they somehow interact with the world around. That's nice. Also they're food for the rest of creation 
Animals - they do not just trade nutrients like plants do, they feel. They're higher than plants, they eat plants. We're allowed to eat them, for we are higher.
Human - the pinnacle of mundane earthly creation, that not only feels, but has free will (we believe plants and animals have a sort of program going on, you see - nature has a set of rules and they are bound to those). We were given this world, we are it's keepers.

We believe that in the dawn of times, when the world was not tainted yet, living beings were not harming each others. And everyone was eating only plants (as stated above, we claim they don't feel, they just trade nutrients with their surroundings). Now that the human has fallen, the perfect order of the world has started to crumble down, too, and we are where we are now.

Oh, after Noah preserved the creation God nerfed humans to 110 years of life and allowed them to consume meat. So yeah, we eat meat too now. Not each other, for that's twisted - human and human are of equal dignity and should treat each other well. Plants don't feel, so we eat them. For animals, we understand them as lower beings than humans, so we can eat them. That doesn't mean we can torment them for fun, oh please no.

I don't want to criticize anyone's view on the matter, nor force you to accept ours. This is just a little insight to our mentality. There are many people, and they're all different, and that's fine! That's how it should be. But we can't come to mutual understanding if we don't learn about the other's views and opinions.

Q'uaksna's trademark incessant babbling, oh well. Hope you did not fall asleep.

And meat is tasty fight me.

[MrRoboto75]

meat tastes too fucking good

[Rolan7]

Personally I can't comprehend how someone can live without meat, but, if you wish, go for it! That's pretty much my view on the matter...

Marvelous! We will get along quite well.

You see, we Catholics have a certain hierarchy when it comes to living beings.

Plants - they live, they grow, they somehow interact with the world around. That's nice. Also they're food for the rest of creation 
Animals - they do not just trade nutrients like plants do, they feel. They're higher than plants, they eat plants. We're allowed to eat them, for we are higher.
Human - the pinnacle of mundane earthly creation, that not only feels, but has free will (we believe plants and animals have a sort of program going on, you see - nature has a set of rules and they are bound to those). We were given this world, we are it's keepers.

We believe that in the dawn of times, when the world was not tainted yet, living beings were not harming each others. And everyone was eating only plants (as stated above, we claim they don't feel, they just trade nutrients with their surroundings). Now that the human has fallen, the perfect order of the world has started to crumble down, too, and we are where we are now.

Oh, after Noah preserved the creation God nerfed humans to 110 years of life and allowed them to consume meat. So yeah, we eat meat too now. Not each other, for that's twisted - human and human are of equal dignity and should treat each other well. Plants don't feel, so we eat them. For animals, we understand them as lower beings than humans, so we can eat them. That doesn't mean we can torment them for fun, oh please no.

I don't want to criticize anyone's view on the matter, nor force you to accept ours. This is just a little insight to our mentality. There are many people, and they're all different, and that's fine! That's how it should be. But we can't come to mutual understanding if we don't learn about the other's views and opinions.

I find your take on creation fascinating, and would love to hear more about it.  If you need a trigger, I would ask about the changing age of man - a simple question, but relevant.

Q'uaksna's trademark incessant babbling, oh well. Hope you did not fall asleep.

And meat is tasty fight me.

meat tastes too fucking good

When one requires proteins - there is a hunger

[Quaksna]

I find your take on creation fascinating, and would love to hear more about it.  If you need a trigger, I would ask about the changing age of man - a simple question, but relevant.

What do you mean by that? Like a lifespan?

Well, first humans were pretty overpowered. Adam died in his... 900 something I think. From Adam to Noah all these guys are recorded in the Old Testament with these ridiculous lifespans. Except for Ezekiel. That one did not die. God took him to his kingdom, after few centuries, so he's the first assumpted (Do you call it that? I know all these theologic terms i Czech exclusicely.) man we know.

We don't think too much about this stuff tho, our world is fascinating and miraculous for sure, but our faith is centered around morality, rather than history.

[nenjin]

Point in fact, the amount of protein you need to survive and sustain muscle mass is pretty small. I think it's on the order of like 20g/daily or something. And as you get older and naturally lose muscle mass, you need even less protein to sustain your muscles. You can get that amount of protein from many places in the plant world without much effort.

But there's so much other stuff in meat, particularly red meat, that you want. Iron. Creatine. Amino acids. All sorts of stuff.

Which is why vegetarians and vegans, in order to stay fully healthy, should supplement with stuff like Vitamin B-12, Iron Supplements, Zinc supplements, and Omega 3 fatty acid supplements. All of which are found in meat.

And TBH, when I started eating 100g+ of protein a day, I started wanting and eating way fewer carbs, which in turn has caused me to lose a serious amount of body fat.

I love meat. I just wish we treated the animals better and quit feeding them so many hormones and straight garbage like candy, quit raising them in gigantic herds that fart up the atmosphere.

[Rolan7]

What do you mean by that? Like a lifespan?

Well, first humans were pretty overpowered. Adam died in his... 900 something I think. From Adam to Noah all these guys are recorded in the Old Testament with these ridiculous lifespans. Except for Ezekiel. That one did not die. God took him to his kingdom, after few centuries, so he's the first assumpted (Do you call it that? I know all these theologic terms i Czech exclusicely.) man we know.

We don't think too much about this stuff tho, our world is fascinating and miraculous for sure, but our faith is centered around morality, rather than history.

I appreciate your faith.  In your telling, the old humans survived just fine by eating the few mammals which existed from the beginning.

I say-
It's kinda fucked up that we eat sentients in current day.

[NJW2000]

I'm pretty sceptical about the whole meat for protein thing. I'm pretty sure sunflower seeds have a higher protein content than chicken breast. I get that it's sometimes the cheapest or most convenient source, but I've seldom been in a position where I couldn't get ~100g protein from a £4 pack of nuts. And I can only really justify consuming that much protein when I'm exercising very frequently and intensely. Edit: the stuff Nenjin said about various nutrients being found in meat is fair enough.

I haven't managed to go vegan, though I'd like to be close to vegan at least when cooking for myself. I think about meals as main + staple + veg, and the hard thing to replace there is the main part of the meal. Would appreciate any tips on main dishes that aren't mushrooms.

Regarding ethics, I think it's pretty obvious that according to most commonly held ethical systems, screwing over the planet or subjecting animals to worse-than-death existences is immoral, or bad stewardship or whatever. So one should try to eat smaller quantities of more ethically sourced meat rather than factory farmed stuff.

Regarding missing out on the taste... Well, meat can taste amazing. But hey, there are lots of amazing experiences out there, and you can only have so many before you die. I'm slightly wary of placing too much value on culinary experiences, as there have been times in my life when I've basically lived for food. Not eating disorders, just having meals as the main source of pleasure. Its a rather sad existence.

/ramble

[Quaksna]

I appreciate your faith.  In your telling, the old humans survived just fine by eating the few mammals which existed from the beginning.

I say-
It's kinda fucked up that we eat sentients in current day.

And older humans lived centuries eating only plants. Well, we presume, that since God allowed eating of meat after Noah that it was forbidden before, so... I guess Adam and his descendants, all the way down to Noah were vegetarians!

Also isn't it funny how Rolan and I have this private religious chat while everyone's discussing proteins and vitamins?

[nenjin]

but I've seldom been in a position where I couldn't get ~100g protein from a £4 pack of nuts.

Peanuts have some of the highest protein of nuts. There's 36g of protein in one cup of nuts, or 146g. So take your average 200g or so container, which is probably more Americans would be more than $4, probably closer to $6 or $7, and you're looking at 50g of protein. (The equivalent amount of meat in 1.5 Arby's Roast Beef Sandwiches.)

The more important point though is this: eating an entire can of nuts per day to get 50g of protein? Wanna take a guess how you're going to feel after that? Not good. Not good at all. Single source solutions to nutrition macros leads to indigestion, constipation, and possible other weird side effects as you regularly consume high amounts of one specific thing. You get to find out how well your body deals with, say, 1400g of peanuts, peanut oils, etc.... going through you on a weekly basis.

Also isn't it funny how Rolan and I have this private religious chat while everyone's discussing proteins and vitamins?

Not to me. I just don't find the religious angle to the discussion particularly interesting as he does.

[MrRoboto75]

I appreciate your faith.  In your telling, the old humans survived just fine by eating the few mammals which existed from the beginning.

I say-
It's kinda fucked up that we eat sentients in current day.

And older humans lived centuries eating only plants. Well, we presume, that since God allowed eating of meat after Noah that it was forbidden before, so... I guess Adam and his descendants, all the way down to Noah were vegetarians!

Also isn't it funny how Rolan and I have this private religious chat while everyone's discussing proteins and vitamins?

Of course Adam was a vegetarian, he lived in a giant garden.