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Author Topic: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP  (Read 9141 times)

vettlingr

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Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« on: April 25, 2020, 06:09:38 pm »
Hi. I'm Vettlingr, you may know me from Vettlignr tileset or that other Domestic Dwarven creature mod.
I am also a geologist, and have a stark interest for rocks and other hard, rough, angular things.

Recently I have thought about how to add more authenticity and diversity to dwarf fortress portrayal of Geology.
If you haven't already, I suggest you try out the 3dveins plugin in DFhack, as it fixes the static geology as it is now.

With but editing the raws, I have set forth on representing aspects of geology not yet implemented in dwarf fortress.
It comes to no surprise that real geology is a lot more complicated than what DF is able to portray. In return, very few games really make an effort to portray geology in a realistic sense anyway, partly because only parts of geology is systematic, whereas minerals and ore get very complicated. The groundwork certainly is there, but DF geolgy miss a lot of features that makes it fall behind a lot.

Issues with DF geology:
- No geology cross z-planes, partly fixed with DFhack 3dveins
- No dikes <-- This one is huge t. Icelander
- No sills
- No differentiation between metamorphic layers
- Igneous intrusive are not intrusive, just the lowest king of rocks, which should be High-P High-T granulites/eclogites
- No metamorphic Iron
- Hydrothermal deposits, the main source of most ores, is totally absent.

Geology only goes through x-y dimensions, and large clusters appears as standarly sized globs in each unit on the map. A system like this does not allow for dikes of any kind. Dikes are very important, as most sulfide deposits, but also some iron ocide and secondary deposits depends on them, and sills, to form. Dikes are often mafic in nature, which means they oversaturate their surroundings with Magnesium, while absorbing a lot of silica, allowing for oxides to form. Contact metamorphism is also dependant on dikes.

Metamorphic layers, always have different grades. Greenschist- amphibolite - granulite is the most common series, which corresponding minerals if the original rock is a metapelite or mafic.

Metapelite - Metamorphic rock derived from sedimentary rocks (or sometimes felsic igneous intrusive rocks)
Metabasic - Metamorphic rock derived from mafic or ultramafic rocks

I've made a long mineral list of different ores, and where they are found:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

With all this info, which took a lot of reading and looking up, I intend to finally compose and release a geology overhaul mod. Though for proper geology to work, we would need a very complicated DFhack command for generating geology, or a complete rework by toady if he is ever up for it. A university would pay big money though for a 3d simulator of geology that can generate and predict ore minerals though, so there is lot of incentive ;)

If you got any of that, I am guessing most of you ain't so interested in geology, but rather would like to see what I can come up with.
Most scientific names of geology makes it hard to know what type of rock is being refered to, that is why I have added some traditional names to the ores, to make them a little more clear, see spoilers.
Also, I never knew that learning german in school would have been so useful when looking up information and articles on ore and minerals until now. Auf wiedersehn!
« Last Edit: April 26, 2020, 07:49:32 am by vettlingr »
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Uthimienure

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2020, 06:45:28 pm »
I'm definitely interested in seeing this mod get completed. DF is fairly impressive already to me with its geology, but you could add so much it seems. The things in your spoiler that stand out for me are the much larger number of sources of ores, and one that's dear to me: anthracite (installed a coal burner in my first house and burned anthracite... wonderful it was!).
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vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2020, 07:16:01 pm »
Quote from: Uthimienure on April 25, 2020, 06:45:28 pm
I'm definitely interested in seeing this mod get completed. DF is fairly impressive already to me with its geology, but you could add so much it seems. The things in your spoiler that stand out for me are the much larger number of sources of ores, and one that's dear to me: anthracite (installed a coal burner in my first house and burned anthracite... wonderful it was!).
I want to move the goal post of geology a great deal, since I see its potential.

I think the regular DF player has been duped when it comes to the abundance of iron ore, right now it's only present in Sedimentary deposits, but a lot of precambrian iron deposits are of low to mid grade metamorphic origin, which is why we have mineral pesudomorphs such as Mertite and Mushketovite. Anyway, iron ore is somewhat preserved as it goes into metamorphic grade, which is not represented in the current system.

The same really goes for anthracite. It is the carbon equivalent, though can reach higher grades, though not too high as then it would turn into graphite and diamond.
The first part of the mod will be to represent a few different geological enviroments (Without sills/dikes sadly)
Further on, I may look into making DFhack generate a correct "Geome", but that is way down the line. I have tried reading up on the sourcecode for 3dveins, but its just started.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2020, 07:20:41 pm by vettlingr »
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2020, 08:40:13 pm »
I like this mod. This type of improving game is best! Better than your creature mod.
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Uthimienure

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2020, 09:32:36 pm »
Are you intending this to be a mod that can be used with any other mod that doesn't make changes to the geology aspects of vanilla?
That would be awesome, so we could use it with a variety of other mods without conflicts.
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FPS in Gravearmor (850+ dwarves) is 3-6 (v0.47.05 lives on).
"I've never really had issues with the old DF interface (I mean, I loved even 'umkh'!)" ... brewer bob
As we say in France: "ah, l'amour toujours l'amour"... François D.

vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2020, 09:15:03 am »
Quote from: Uthimienure on April 25, 2020, 09:32:36 pm
Are you intending this to be a mod that can be used with any other mod that doesn't make changes to the geology aspects of vanilla?
That would be awesome, so we could use it with a variety of other mods without conflicts.
As much as I would like it to, I do not think that is possible/viable. I would still have to edit existing minerals to add them to the new layer stone, as well as gems. DF geology is already flawed enough, there is little pont in adding more without addressing its problems.

I'll be doing a lite version first, where I only modify existing geology, then I'll do a full version, where I build upon the lite.

No mod support unless requested. Though any mod that doesn't have any geology changes could in theory use it.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 01:59:45 pm by vettlingr »
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vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2020, 10:35:23 am »
In the last 5 days, I've skimmed through tens of articles, books and mineralogy websites to get a better grip on Ore Genesis.


Previous DF threads about new geology:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=82309.0 - Informative about DFs shortcomings regarding Sedimentary Layers.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147428.0 - Fun Stone and Mineral Expansion mod, though misguided.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=139640.0 - Proposal by Urist McUser to expand DF geological simulation.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=143206.0 - Masterwork addon for Minerals and Rocks, misguided, though very well made.

Soil 60% Done
Soil layers stay much the same, though non-pottery clay has been renamed to "mud", to lessen confusion.
Some ore such as Lignite and Bog Iron can be found as small clusters in most soils and as veins in peat, as well as Mangan Nodules in Ocean Sediments.
Clay will appear as large Clusters in soil, rather than whole layers, and most embarks will probably have clay as a result. Further more, Laterite/Bauxite Clusters in soil may be a way to add certain oxide ore in soil. Gypsum Clusters in sand, is another way to find carbonate ore in soil layers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Layer Stone
The aim here is to provide a few new geodomes for minerals to appear in, that are each part of a mineralogical family.
If to rocks are essentially very similar in composition and what it contains, they should generally be regarded as the same, ex. Norite & Gabbro or Thoelite and Basalt.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Large Clusters in Layer stone
To add reaction environments such as skarns, weathering, gossam, intrusions etc. the following are hypothetical inclusions in layer stone.
not all of the minerals shown will make the final cut, but I've included them to create a scope of possible outcomes.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Minerals and ore:
I've Dug about the Mineral books to find nearly all commersial ores that are used today, and added a small note to each one where to find them.
Most common environments are still skarns and sulfide enrichment zones. It will be a challenge to incorporate it all into a working system in DF, and some of the minerals will probably not make the cut, to reduce bloat. Most of all, the list is a guide to which environment I should focus on, i.e. Carbonate skarns/gauge, laterite, hydrothermal deposits, Porphyry deposits, ultra mafic enrichment environments, evaporites and so on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Metals
I removed most of the Alloys to make room for more metals. Some metals are beyond Medieval technology and some hvae fantasy names, but are based on real alloys/superalloys. Only Vanadine and Thorium have unrealistic fantasy values, with real vanadium being super hard but brittle, and thorium being a very terrible radioactive metal.
The alloys build on the steel industry mostly, reducing the ammount of steps for normal steel, but adds a few steps for higher grade steel, with thematic rather than realistic names, i.e. Rune Steel and Mithril.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Workshops
To incorporate all the minerals, alloys and metal, and reduce smelter reaction bloat, I'm going to add the following workshops.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2020, 01:37:49 pm by vettlingr »
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Toxicshadow

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2020, 11:41:47 am »
Wow keep it up! Great work! DF needs a rework like this!
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2020, 01:10:46 pm »
Now you choose wrong way, before runes adding mod was really better.
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vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2020, 01:37:15 pm »
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on April 30, 2020, 01:10:46 pm
Now you choose wrong way, before runes adding mod was really better.
I agree. It is better as a standalone mod if anything.

As for the metal, it is based on real alloys, though High speed steel doesn't make sense for dwarves

And mithril is better because Cobalt-Chrome-Nickel superalloy is too long.
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Iä! RIAKTOR!

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2020, 03:54:18 pm »
Quote from: vettlingr on April 30, 2020, 01:37:15 pm
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on April 30, 2020, 01:10:46 pm
Now you choose wrong way, before runes adding mod was really better.
I agree. It is better as a standalone mod if anything.

As for the metal, it is based on real alloys, though High speed steel doesn't make sense for dwarves

And mithril is better because Cobalt-Chrome-Nickel superalloy is too long.
Not hight speed steel, but maybe king steel or sharp steel or deep steel or precious steel. Mithril? Possible, but this name from LoTR language.
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vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2020, 04:19:36 pm »
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on April 30, 2020, 03:54:18 pm
Quote from: vettlingr on April 30, 2020, 01:37:15 pm
Quote from: Iä! RIAKTOR! on April 30, 2020, 01:10:46 pm
Now you choose wrong way, before runes adding mod was really better.
I agree. It is better as a standalone mod if anything.

As for the metal, it is based on real alloys, though High speed steel doesn't make sense for dwarves

And mithril is better because Cobalt-Chrome-Nickel superalloy is too long.
Not hight speed steel, but maybe king steel or sharp steel or deep steel or precious steel. Mithril? Possible, but this name from LoTR language.
Yeahm the names are not set yet. I went with mithril since the metal is not an Iron based alloy. King Steel or Deep Steel is nice, I like both of them, sounds dwarfy enough.
I usually prefer a one syllable prefix for useful alloy names like that.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2020, 05:07:19 am by vettlingr »
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Wannabehero

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2020, 03:57:18 pm »
Well done Vettlingr.

I have a similar unreleased mod I use in my own games, that renames stones/ores to the archaic field names and adjusts abundance and location to be more in keeping with IRL.  I have done this similarly for gems, which I don't know if you've dived into yet.  I toyed with the idea of releasing this as a public mod, but I'm also very lazy  :o

If you would like, i could send you my gemstone nomenclature and abundance tables, if it would help you get started on that whole mess.

I really like the look of what you've got so far, it heavily aligns with my own research, and you've gone into more detail on some placer and host mineral series that I opted to exclude.  Excellent detail my dude.  Keep up with your great modding!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 04:09:45 pm by Wannabehero »
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vettlingr

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2020, 09:57:04 am »
Quote from: Wannabehero on May 07, 2020, 03:57:18 pm
Well done Vettlingr.

I have a similar unreleased mod I use in my own games, that renames stones/ores to the archaic field names and adjusts abundance and location to be more in keeping with IRL.  I have done this similarly for gems, which I don't know if you've dived into yet.  I toyed with the idea of releasing this as a public mod, but I'm also very lazy  :o

If you would like, i could send you my gemstone nomenclature and abundance tables, if it would help you get started on that whole mess.

I really like the look of what you've got so far, it heavily aligns with my own research, and you've gone into more detail on some placer and host mineral series that I opted to exclude.  Excellent detail my dude.  Keep up with your great modding!

Thank you! I was a little inspired by your mod when I first got this idea.
I've done a lot of reading and revised a lot as I went, turns out paragenisis is far from the easiest part of geology, and the articles often lack explanations with geochemistry, I've read articles and books in 5 different languages to try and make a good overview. I don't think a full geological model can be implemented in DF in any case, as ore genesis is mostly occuring between layers of very different composition, the most notable example being skarns in carbonates bordering igneous intrusions. From a gameplay perspective, ore minerals are essentially too rare, which is an issue for gameplay, the general solution is to make ore bodies very common, as is already the case in the game.

First in the order of events is to tweak the existing geology in the raws, and not add anything new.  I will be a quick fix at first with only a couple of tweaks, though I will build upon it more in the future. These include:

Microcline, Orthoclase and Mica clusters in granite and diorite only, Mica also in some metamorphic rocks.
Olivine renamed Peridotite and made into a layer?
Hematite occurs in more Rock layers, metamorphic hematite?
Magnetite occurs less in sedimentary, but more in igneous and metamorphic rocks. Magnetite sands are not really that common compared to intrusive ore bodies. (Kiruna deposit etc.)
Obsidian made into clusters in Igneous extrusive
Rock salt made into clusters in Sedimentary
Jet, clusters in Metamorphic
Lignite/Coal, clusters in sedimentary
Kimberlites should probably be clusters in deeper layers?
Adjusting occurrence modifiers for ores is probably a good idea, making platinum and gold less common.

Clay is clusters in sediments. Not workable clay is renamed "Mud"
Limonite can stand in for Bog Iron and Goethite, appearing in similar places.
Minor tweaks such as adding Sharpness to "bladeable rocks", such as chert, quartzite and basalt

I do want to adjust the names and occurence of gemstones, any data I can get on that is golden.

It is hard to keep all the ideas in my hands, and I'm sure I've bit off more than I can chew, though I'm really learning a lot for my masters in geology reading up on this.
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Wannabehero

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Re: Vettlingr's Geology Overhaul Mod, WIP
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2020, 04:22:52 pm »
Quote from: vettlingr on May 08, 2020, 09:57:04 am
It is hard to keep all the ideas in my hands, and I'm sure I've bit off more than I can chew, though I'm really learning a lot for my masters in geology reading up on this.

You can say that again!  That was my conclusion also when I started digging deep into this data.  I'm not a geologist or mineralogist by any means, but as a scientist I've always had an amateur fascination with geology.

I eventually settled on the same limitations you've arrived at; we can't truly make the game representative of the real world, but we can try to make it a bit better than it is currently, with concessions for playability and fun.

I'll take my tables and notes and put them together into a google doc and send you the link when I get the chance, hopefully they might help  8)
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 04:25:31 pm by Wannabehero »
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