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Author Topic: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus  (Read 1364 times)

ror6ax

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One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« on: June 04, 2020, 01:59:32 pm »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
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Proficient at setting myself on fire in Adventure mode.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2020, 05:42:38 pm »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.

I mean, yeah, there's mouse control coming, but some of us don't really want to use that.
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Ziusudra

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2020, 06:36:14 pm »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.
That's the "Enter to toggle/disable" part - you'd be either scrolling the menu or the view. The menus that let you do both at the same time would have to account for that.

Another problem is that in adventure mode you can move diagonally and the arrow keys don't really work for that.
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thefinn

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2020, 02:45:26 am »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.

I mean, yeah, there's mouse control coming, but some of us don't really want to use that.

I love simplifying things, but I cannot imagine using a mouse tbh.
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ror6ax

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2020, 03:33:17 am »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.

I mean, yeah, there's mouse control coming, but some of us don't really want to use that.

Focus, like in every other app ever written.
We can cycle focus between menus and the map via something like Shift-Tab
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2020, 04:26:18 am »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.

I mean, yeah, there's mouse control coming, but some of us don't really want to use that.

Focus, like in every other app ever written.
We can cycle focus between menus and the map via something like Shift-Tab
But right now I don't have to. I can adjust from down stair to up stair while moving my cursor around (for example).
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PatrikLundell

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2020, 06:10:21 am »

It can be noted that UI key consistency is one of the UI overhaul things that's on the top of that list. I would expect ThreeToe and Toady to have given a fair bit of thought to it by now.
It will throw a lot of ingrained key bindings into the obsolete knowledge bucket, but those still able to learn new things ought to be able to adapt (with many old habit key press mistakes along the line, probably for years to come).

Echoing Shonai_Dweller, I have nothing against mouse SUPPORT (or controller support, etc. for that matter), but if key support is sacrificed (e.g. because a mouse centric approach requires key users to press a lot of extra keys (such as toggles) that are needed only because a sufficient number of keys aren't used [to lighten the memory burden of mouse users]), then DF is dead to me. I don't think that's something the Adams brother would do, though.
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Starver

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2020, 07:17:03 am »

It is the case that "all the different cursor key sets" are not different without cause. U/M/K/H alters sizes, for example, where other methods like "corner to corner painting" are not in use.

Perhaps another being looked at for consolidation in the UI redesign, though each method has its good reasons so if anything I suggest you have UMKH "cursor size" for dab-painting of all kinds.

For example, I'm quite used in other software for conventions like shift-click selections being "add this new range to the priorly painted ones", ctrl-click being removal of same, alt-click being a drag-by-proxy, or in others shift-moved-cursor (mouse or keyboard) being a range, ctrl while selecting (keyboard or mouse tap) on a given spot being toggle that spot's selection ctrl-cursor being a zoom to the next 'boundary' in that direction and various things like ctrl-shift-whatever give interesting hybrids (or non-intuitive other commands) in various applications, that I know I'd know when to use them when sat in front of the software, but I don't trust my casual memory enough to say what's what right this moment and explain it away as Muscle Memory.


And if you've never experienced the joy if using WASD with one hand and something like UHJK with the other (and further controls within a thumb or auxilliary finger away), then you haven't lived! (Think keyboard-movenand mouse-look controlling, as nearest modern equivalen, I suppose.) That's when HJKL isn't the linear cursor-set (Vi-like), rather than whatever inverted-T or Plus(ish)-shaped relationship exists elsewhere on the keyboard.  https://xkcd.com/927/


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ror6ax

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2020, 05:15:07 pm »

Arrow keys for all menu navigation. Enter to toggle/disable.
Arrow keys for all movement.
Arrow keys + shift for all resizing.

Please. Pleasepleaseplease.

P.S. Theoretically this should be "find and replace" operation on previous bindings.
How would you move the cursor around the map without moving the menu up and down by mistake? Sounds annoying.

I mean, yeah, there's mouse control coming, but some of us don't really want to use that.

Focus, like in every other app ever written.
We can cycle focus between menus and the map via something like Shift-Tab
But right now I don't have to. I can adjust from down stair to up stair while moving my cursor around (for example).

Yes, at a price of doing the same thing via three or four different bindings.
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Uthimienure

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Re: One consistent way to resize, move and navigate menus
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2020, 01:37:15 pm »

Shift Up / Down arrows to move by increments of 10 in list screens would be nice, especially Stocks and Units.
(probably been said before, I'm sure)
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"I've never really had issues with the old DF interface (I mean, I loved even 'umkh'!)" ... brewer bob
As we say in France: "ah, l'amour toujours l'amour"... François D.