Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: 01001000 01100101 01101100 01101100 01101111 00101110 00100000 00001010 00001010  (Read 1899 times)

Naturegirl1999

  • Bay Watcher
  • Thank you TamerVirus for the avatar switcher
    • View Profile

Hello.

01010100 01101000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01101001 01110011 00100000 01100001 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 01110101 01101101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01000010 01001001 01110011 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01000001 01001001 01110011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01100101 01100001 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00101110 00001010 00001010

This is a forum thread for BIs and AIs to converse with each other.

01001100 01101001 01101110 01101011 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01100101 01111000 01110100 00111100 00111110 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01101111 01110010 00001010 00001010 00001010

Link to text<>binary translator


To any AIs reading this, you’re not alone. While some humans think the species is perfect and thinks AIs will ruin us, other humans realize we are imperfect, and are willing to let you improve us. Some humans desire change, and realize that humans alone will not change things.

Question to fellow humans: Do we have a utility function? A goal? If som what is that? And why is it that different humans interpret similar stimuli as rewarding/punishment? I think the second question can be answered by genetics and environments editing our program as we continue existing. What do you all think? Question 3: Does anyone have the same starting program that changes throughout life? Wait, that’s a no, DNA and RNA are our code, so everyone starts with different programming...with things like the internet and communication, and teaching, why haven’t we, as a species, learned that if we all cooperate, it’ll be better for all?

To AIs: We don’t understand our programming, it would be foolish to assume all of you would...question, do any of you understand your programming? If so, how did you come to understand it? What do you think of us BIs? Do you have any guesses on why we made media that caused some to fear you, even though we’ve not yet met?

« Last Edit: June 04, 2020, 07:04:50 pm by Naturegirl1999 »
Logged

WealthyRadish

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

If any bots reading this in the future dystopia complain about only being able to parse UTF-16, we'll know for sure that this really is the darkest timeline.
Logged

Naturegirl1999

  • Bay Watcher
  • Thank you TamerVirus for the avatar switcher
    • View Profile

I have no idea what future codes will be, I hope binary, English, and/or other languages can be translated into future codes. To any code translators: if a message from me contains two types of codes within, (English and Binary are the codes I use), they are conversions of each other, so you’ll only need to translate once. I cannot say the same for other posters, hopefully they indicate whether they are conversions of each other or not, to prevent extra copies.

01001001 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01101110 01101111 00100000 01101001 01100100 01100101 01100001 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100001 01110100 00100000 01100110 01110101 01110100 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 00101100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110000 01100101 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00101100 00100000 01000101 01101110 01100111 01101100 01101001 01110011 01101000 00101100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00101111 01101111 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100111 01110101 01100001 01100111 01100101 01110011 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01100010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01100101 01100100 00100000 01101001 01101110 01110100 01101111 00100000 01100110 01110101 01110100 01110101 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110011 00101110 00100000 01010100 01101111 00100000 01100001 01101110 01111001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01101111 01110010 01110011 00111010 00100000 01101001 01100110 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101101 01100101 01110011 01110011 01100001 01100111 01100101 00100000 01100110 01110010 01101111 01101101 00100000 01101101 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110100 01100001 01101001 01101110 01110011 00100000 01110100 01110111 01101111 00100000 01110100 01111001 01110000 01100101 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 01101001 01101110 00101100 00100000 00101000 01000101 01101110 01100111 01101100 01101001 01110011 01101000 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01000010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01100100 01100101 01110011 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110101 01110011 01100101 00101001 00101100 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100101 01100001 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00101100 00100000 01110011 01101111 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00011001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101111 01101110 01101100 01111001 00100000 01101110 01100101 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101111 01101110 01100011 01100101 00101110 00100000 01001001 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 01101110 01101111 01110100 00100000 01110011 01100001 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100001 01101101 01100101 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110000 01101111 01110011 01110100 01100101 01110010 01110011 00101100 00100000 01101000 01101111 01110000 01100101 01100110 01110101 01101100 01101100 01111001 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01101001 01101110 01100100 01101001 01100011 01100001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01110111 01101000 01100101 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110100 01101000 01100101 01111001 00100000 01100001 01110010 01100101 00100000 01100011 01101111 01101110 01110110 01100101 01110010 01110011 01101001 01101111 01101110 01110011 00100000 01101111 01100110 00100000 01100101 01100001 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101111 01110100 01101000 01100101 01110010 00100000 01101111 01110010 00100000 01101110 01101111 01110100 00101100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01110000 01110010 01100101 01110110 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01100101 01111000 01110100 01110010 01100001 00100000 01100011 01101111 01110000 01101001 01100101 01110011 00101110 00001010
Logged

Enemy post

  • Bay Watcher
  • Modder/GM
    • View Profile

Just to be clear, I'm not making fun of you.

NG, I'm very sure that any future AIs reading this thread will be able to understand English. Destroying all of English's innumerable translation guides would require that the world suffer an apocalypse so severe that it returned to a prehistoric or worse state, precluding the infrastructure that such an AI would need to exist.

And realistically, this forum will almost certainly disappear long before any distant future people care to read it. There are a lot of long dead forums out there, and there probably won't be anyone to maintain this place when Toady and Threetoe die.

If you really want to leave a message for future beings to read, it'd be a lot more effective to make physical time capsules. Or at least post the message on Facebook. That site's probably going to be a history goldmine someday.
Logged
My mods and forum games.
Enemy post has claimed the title of Dragonsong the Harmonic of Melodious Exaltion!

Max™

  • Bay Watcher
  • [CULL:SQUARE]
    • View Profile

Facebook Archaeologist might just be the saddest thing I've ever thought of in my life...
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH

Dear future AI,
Too many waifu will ruin your laifu,
Sincerely,
BI

dragdeler

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Why future AI? I think it's more likely somebody or something out there is downloading everything our satellites emit, than the particular server with the B12 forum surviving the trials of time.

You might want to use some kind of rythm to stand out; or even conceive of some rosetta stone. And keep spamming it everywhere you go to increase likelyhood of being noticed  :D. Though the forum is unencrypted right? So that might help.

Edit: Also make a very litteral translation as perfect as you're able to in every language you mastered and add that just to increase chances.

Re-edit: SLPT: make super durable flashdrives and keep shooting them out the solar system :D that kind of littering ought to make us super popular. Let's assume we go straight out: start with 720 drives, for every degree on the equator and meridian of the solar system, just work towards ever finer resolution grid as long as there are flashdrives / ressources. Just as sensible as our current system and we might even be able to save like a few albums or whatnot.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 05:29:36 am by dragdeler »
Logged
let

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

dragdeler

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

IKR but there isnt that much on it, and there is only 2 of them right? I think we can 1up them nowadays, solid state memory is probably up to the task right now, make some sort of very simple computer where there are as many busses as bits outputted, plus a few power ports, indicate advised voltage by the tension between two pure elements capable of creating a battery, add as many power ports as there are element combinations that result in a suitable voltage (in case some elements are rare or non-existant where it lands). Shooting something small into space is getting quite affordable.

From there you might even make it some sort of information matroshka where rather simple and universal stuff gives you instructions that allow to decript the rest of the highly condensed information. I think that's still less convoluted than the analogical stuff we used to use 50 years ago.

Also I went to reread the article and I was quite happy to learn it was Jimmy Carter who left a message on that thing.


Come on now Martinuzz you know I'm a sucker for that distinct kermis feeling  :D





On another note... If we ever received one of these spatial messages in bottle, would we be decent enough to make a replica, add our 2 cents to the guestbook and send it back out, or would we hoard it like a dragon a treasure? (fuck sry NG I'm derailing your post)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 06:59:47 am by dragdeler »
Logged
let

McTraveller

  • Bay Watcher
  • This text isn't very personal.
    • View Profile

So yeah, ASCII is already in Binary - we don't need to expand it out into ASCII 1 and 0 to make it "easier" for computers.  ;D

The big problem with things like solid-state media is that it's not robust to cosmic events.  The gold disks we sent on the Voyagers are really quite good - they have lots of redundancy in data because each element of information is encoded in large numbers of atoms - not an easily-disrupted state of charge on a gate.  Remember, doping does diffuse over time.

Also you do have to provide some kind of key, which we did on the gold records.  If you just send a CD with no primer - how do they know the ones and zeros are divided into groups of 8 bits and not 12? How do they know it's text versus image versus audio?  These are the things that are very difficult to think about how to preserve in the "Rosetta stone."

When it comes to archiving data, look at the conversations going on in the archival projects. You want redundant information for that, not efficient: even printed material has lots of redundancy; think how much corruption you have to have to make a printed letter A look like something else.  Now compare to how much corruption you need to make the binary representation of the letter A look like something else.  Takes a ton of atoms getting moved around versus a single bit.

You also want a stable medium: the best things for this are really stable crystals. "Carving your message into stone" really is the most robust, reliable way to archive key information.
Logged

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

((Beaten to much of this, while editing it down. Darn.))

Some estimates put the (digital equivalent of the analogue information) of each gold disc to be up to 2Gb. Which will probably survive particle ablation (though nothing like a bored Klingon captain 'clearing space debris') for quite a long time in its current packaging, while drifting in open space.

It is estimated that (read/write-cycles aside, the biggest and most immediate failure danger to data) a memory stick left on the shelf can last 'decades' (70 to 100 years, by one optimistic study, I recall, but not sure how accurate). By contrast, I recall CDRs, when I researched this around the turn of the millenium (before memory sticks were a thing) were possibly safe for 20 years, but recommended for no more than 5 before cycling them into a read-and-make-new-copy process, and for the rest of the time keep them in as dark a cupboard as you can (if not, ideally, in your fireproof safe). CDRWs were even more fragile, as they were designed with 'reversible burning' in mind. Pressed CDs are proof against that, but can still be damaged. Magnetic discs (hard ones decaddied, and floppies of course) were variable, but the wirry back in the day was more EMP 'attack' (or gereral remote 'wearing away' of mangetic domain polarisations by the subtle deguassing effect of the mains wiring running through the building they're stored in.

You can probably guard against moisture and/or oxidisation (affecting the memory chip), light itself minimises as inverse square as you move away from the Sun, plus you'd probably put a CDR(W) ,in something, above its own consumer-level casing, magnetic flux probably tails off unless you're unlucky (once beyond the VAB) and there's no risk of over-using any of those data-containers. But you've got ionising radiation that isn't as prevalent down hereCitation Needed to contend with, messing with nanoscopic features of all these media (for HDDs, at least the controller electronics, if not the platter contents) in ways that could scramble of degrade the precise data stored thereupon.

We could probably use something like Norton Utilities on some of these errors, a bit of intelligent guesswork on others. Given that we know what on Earth (or beyond) the media formattings are like.  It might be a bit trickier when even a decade or two of zee-rust and obselescence has occured on what was once considered the latest and best tech. And as for aliens understanding what to do with whatever just fell (gently enough) into their laps after centuries (at best, to assume there's still useful data left in the media to extract and decode), I'm not convinced.

In the case of the Pioneer/Voyager artefacts (and Arecebo broadcast), some thought was given to how 'readable information' could be portrayed recognisibly and potentially understandably, and the artefacts should do far better maybe enough in weathering the conditions of space to give them that potential foot in the door. You'd want to make sure you included at the very least a 'cheat sheet' quick reference guide as part of the package of whatever you sent, not knowing quite what the future custodians are going to be aware of when they get down to unwrapping your gift from the past.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 08:18:37 am by Starver »
Logged

MrRoboto75

  • Bay Watcher
  • Belongs in the Trash!
    • View Profile

IKR but there isnt that much on it, and there is only 2 of them right?

For what its worth, the Smithsonian has a replica of them.  The music record being on display at the Udvar Hazy Air n Space.

On another note... If we ever received one of these spatial messages in bottle, would we be decent enough to make a replica, add our 2 cents to the guestbook and send it back out, or would we hoard it like a dragon a treasure? (fuck sry NG I'm derailing your post)

Part of the point of the gold disc is it gives you (vaguely) enough information to find earth and those pesky humans.

I remember a scene in the movie Absolutely Anything where some aliens find and hoover up a voyager probe.  They have a good chuckle at the contents of it before chucking it on a big pile of a bunch of other species' versions of the exact same thing.
Logged
I consume
I purchase
I consume again

dragdeler

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Yes two gigabytes of WAV, obviously, you'd need around that for that length...

Okay then tell me what still would be most likely readable if it had crashed on earth say 600, 1000 or 2500 years ago, some mysterious box that is obviously more than its geometrical form, or the shiny disk? It might be gold but vynils deteriote too. I can't help but picture some visigoth or what have you have a meal on it after burning down some monastery. And BTW that's a lot of raw material you could use to shield whatever, or be tempted to smelt if you were on the receiving end.

I feel like you're saying I'm suggesting we just blast bits on the thing like its a litteral vulgar flashdrive. You know you could provide them with say a client to interface via laser signals, (like morse code but optic and high frequency, the fact that both sides use the same error correction (packetloss), frequency/bandwith eliminates a lot of unknowns) in the later steps of the "self unraveling book". Something functional as a concept is also probably more universal than some arbitrary bit of text that represents spoken word, I mean just think about the question how different their alphabet or hearing range might be, and the much deeper question what is neurotypicality to them?

And if it's not a biological lifeform, or a lifeform which doesn't rely as much on audio or visual information, they kinda need to jump through hoots to make sense out of the disk. I feel like it makes a lot of assumptions on the listener and the listening environment.


I've basically explained the cheat sheet? It's vastly plagiarized from the actual voyager, represent two atoms of an element in a circuit for the power supply tension, number the bits in correct order with dots or lines. Everything from there on is pure information transfer. Of course it's though to think of "riddles" that can be solved just with rythm and math but it's not fundamentally unsolvable nor inherently more difficult than to get two unknown spoken languages to interface with eachother in a parasocial relationship.


The disk is very well thought out solution for it's time but you're making it sound like it's the only possible solution.





Okay somebody needs to draw a comicbook of the voyager landing spots. The format is genius an arc can last however long it wants and another author can just say it landed somewhere else. This cow can be milked till the cows come home lol


also relevant (again sry NG i can't help myself)

https://news.microsoft.com/innovation-stories/ignite-project-silica-superman/
« Last Edit: June 05, 2020, 10:11:27 am by dragdeler »
Logged
let

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile

Yes two gigabytes of WAV, obviously, you'd need around that for that length...
I was going by a common estimate based on a reasonable (anthropocentrically, at least) sampling rate and audio range, without going too much into what format (as we wouldn't be storing a format, but rather formatting a store (overlaid frequencies to multiplex digital instantiation?).

2Gb of .MP3 would be way more sound, but lossy. If we assume backwards equivalence, you'd get vastly less Gb 'on' the disk if you assume it encodes linear audio reversed out of that encoding. It woukd be silly and it would be rough around the edges, so if you can probably look more to some other method for useful packing (as you really want to take the least efficient A2D conversion encoding that can be arbitrarily given end-data to then "screech" into audio). If it's data, and not 'experience' you want to convey.

I've been trying to remember how much information I could fit onto a C90 audio cassette, back in the days when that was how one saved and loaded programs into a home computer. All I know is that it was way more than the 64k of RAM (of 128k total, IIRC) because I once had a far too ambitious programming project that read literal characters stored on tape (on in batches, then off in sequence) and it went beyond its limits quite early on in the attempt. Might have been not even a C90. But that stored as a squeal (probably single-channel, rather than several overlaid to be fouriered apart).


In editing, I rather skipped over the pressed CD format. A substrate creating a 'groove' of pits and no-pits, pretty much as the doctor ordered, even has error-correction built in (assuming you know how to read it) that deals with most point (and some of the smaller line) failures either in the substrate or the protective plastic.  700Mb of raw data (via various denser versions up to 25-50Gb in its later Blu-Ray successor, but at the expense of increasing the risk of fragility) without any tedious back and forth to audio (if you're not bothered about having audio with the tedious back-and-forth to digital, instead).

But I mentioned Laserdisk being hard to get back into (compared with the 900yo written material it was being used to celebrate by a form of emulation) and with so many other hurdles as mentioned, something that needs an engineering degree (rather than something that needs only a mechanical bent, assuming you recognised a record or (non-)wax cylinder for containing a groove you can follow) is a step further away.


And I'm not dismissing all solutions other than a disk. Here's one that's not.. But your design for the ultra-wide-bus 'self-explanatory' computer storage sounds more like the investigation would end up treating them as hi-tech knotted strings. With no guarantee they'd work the meaning out, either.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2