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Author Topic: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game  (Read 20672 times)

LoSboccacc

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2020, 01:21:35 am »

so, new community game?

« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 05:35:47 am by LoSboccacc »
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Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #46 on: December 07, 2020, 10:57:09 am »

I've been playing campaign in Open Beta for a bit. I think I'm going to wait until there's some more patches before I try to run a community game or anything. The new market model is very interesting, you manually set a fixed price for all cars you sell, and you sell them to dealerships. Then, the dealership sets their own margin on top of your price based on demand- and more margin they make, the happier they are, which grows their dealership level and your Awareness. You no longer fund dealerships on your own, so the only way to grow dealerships is to sell competitive cars at a competitive price, but you can still grow your awareness through advertising. Factory build and tool times have been reworked based on IRL research and are basically the shortest they've ever been, and you can add them to production without starting a new facelift as well. Competitors also have a certain number of cars they actually produce, and there's a simulated customer base buying them, so sales aren't arbitrarily based on your competitiveness any more. However, that also means that the competitiveness number is no longer a very good indicator of how well your car will sell. Depending on how busy a market is and your awareness, you could have a seemingly bad car sell very well or vice versa.

The actual issues with the current version, are that A) it is VERY easy for the moment, although this is supposed to be changed soon, and B) performance with the new sales model is quite poor, campaign monthly ticks run slow even on powerful machines. I was thinking of maybe doing video/stream if I did another community campaign to save myself from uploading a thousand screenshots, so the performance is an issue in particular.

However, I have been messing with BeamNG's BeamMP multiplayer mod. Last week I hosted a race for Automation cars, and although it suffered from a lot of technical difficulties, I have another one set up which I hope will be smoother. Details are on the Automation Forums if anyone is interested, although you'll need BeamNG to drive in the race.
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #47 on: December 07, 2020, 12:59:08 pm »

that's super interesting but sadly entirely incompatible with my timezone
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MrRoboto75

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #48 on: December 07, 2020, 01:36:26 pm »

For me, beam doesn't run very well with just one person
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Duuvian

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2020, 02:21:31 am »

I bought this even though I'm not a car guy to try it to see if a guy I know who doesn't use computers could play it. I'm glad I opted to try it before gifting it. The open beta isn't stable at all but is way better featurewise (engineering time has a slider in beta) than the stable version, so I'm going to wait for a beta patch before I try again. I do think that guy could play it once it's more stable. I had a hell of time trying to figure out why I could not build car only to learn there is a bug that prevents starting car projects sometimes. It doesn't flash WARNING: BUG at you so I thought my design was flawed in a way the game wasn't telling me about and I messed with sliders for a long time before I gave up and looked at the steam forums for the game and learned it was bugged. Overall though I like the game and I think once it's playing well it has a lot of potential as I think people into cars but not so much computer games might take a look at it if they somehow become aware of it.

I've been playing 1946 Archaea starts. At first I didn't realize you could start with aluminum bodies in tiny factories, so initially I was starting with like $2billion to soak up the operating costs of a medium 1 factory. Now I've been starting in Archaea with $50 or $100 million, a tiny car factory and small engine factory, so as to start with little. Haven't tried starting with no cash and relying on loans yet so I don't know if it would work. I am guess it may because with a tiny factory you reach the green profits including factory tooling in the first or second year if your car isn't unworkably expensive or crappy and you keep factory tooling cost low. In the open beta I was able to get engineering time down to 1 month on my minibus and van model; but then I screwed it up somehow and had to settle for a 4 month period of not making cars.

My best strategy in an Archaea start is to make the first engine factory produce a 3-Cylinder 1000cc tractor engine (generally top speed around 50mph). Archaea loves it because it's cheap and works in most budget vehicles..

Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

While I would prefer to produce a V8 or something in a small factory for premium cars, the engineering time for fancier engines means a longer period of not producing. I can get engineering + tooling down to 4 months or less on the preexisting factories, whereas a 1000cc V8 takes much longer even though it works for Light Sports and such vehicles which would be better for a tiny-small factory to make. I plan to switch the small factories to premium builds once I had a larger engine factory producing the 3-Cylinder 1000cc budget motor to reduce costs and increase affordability through scale of production.

I put it in a big ass van and a minibus for the first factory. The Delivery demographic actually has money to spend, unlike Archaea's budget cars which will have under 10% affordabilitywhen producing in a reasonable tiny factory for those demographics, though delivery aren't large demographics. The bright side of Archaea is that cheap cars can sell in higher categories; for example my 3rd model is usually a cheap budget convertible that can touch convertible+ and family segments. The minibus actually sells better than the vans in the long term; even though the vans  are rated much more desirably in their target demogaphics the lower rated minibus spans more demographics at a much lower desirability.

The funniest Archae market oddities example is that the crappy vans going 40-60mph top speed qualify just barely as track cars in Archaea. I like to think I'm selling to a go-kart track equivalent that races or otherwise competes tractor cars. It racks up impressive sales for what it is in scale to the smalle demographic due to lack of affordable competition I assume.

Spoiler: Snail (click to show/hide)

Then the second factory I was trying to make a utility pickup as that is a small demographic overall, so a tiny or small factory could handle enough to be profitable without overproducing.

Unfortunately the open beta has a bug that will not let you tick the checkbox in the project sign off screen and I can't figure out how to avoid it or firx it once it occurs. It's enough to wait for a new patch for, because it is RIGHT AT THE END of the design process, after you've moved sliders around for what feels an hour and then spent another timebit adding fixtures.

This one was the WORST because I actually tried and then once I was FINALLY SATISFIED I saw the bug. RAGEQUIT CAMPAIGN

Spoiler: Large images (click to show/hide)

It did turn out nicely. It was actually a budget car but when I was messing with body molding I accidently made what looked like the head of a snake after I inverted and reverted the texture a few times with the new tool for stretching and rotating. The texture snaps to place so even if it looks unworkable it "settles down", in this instance it looked like a snake so I went with it. Not really carbon fiber, just chose that paint because it looked like scales. I was going to either try to import those fixtures to another model if possible, or if not rework the design into a sports car in the 50's. I'm not terribly happy with the lower jaw, was planning to rework that part on facelift.  I wish I had exported it but I was going to do that once I had the design in production and that bug is maddenning

EDIT: Is there a way to delete a concept motor design or at least hide it from the menu? I had to quit a campaign because I had the bright idea of spending corporate dollars on engine concepts. It worked fantastically to improve familiarity, but my menu was filled with what I called prototype designs I'd rather delete.

EDIT2: I jut saw there is a new patch on the open beta version I either didn't notice when I started Steam or just went up, I'll check it out.

EDIT3: Well it updated but there are no notes so I don't know

I loaded my save with the broken projct sign off and it's not working.
Spoiler: large images (click to show/hide)

It's a cheap truck made in a tiny or small factory but not so crappy that it would score anywhere near 0. It's odd because until you go back  the desirability score is drastically lower in the vehicle designer too... but still not 0 and only until you move a slider at which it goes back to normal for designer. The real problem though is that this model is unable to ever be produced by this bug as I don't know how to figure out the checkbox's demands. Tried new engines, new factories etc. just seems random and uncorrectable by the player.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 05:00:07 am by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2020, 02:41:02 pm »

I don't think we're certain but the rumor is that the no-sign-off bug in Open Beta affects utility bodies. At least, I had it with a utility body earlier and someone said they think that's what it was, I've avoided utility since (ouch) but haven't run into the bug. I would say you're far better off playing the game on the stable version rather than beta, but it looks like you've already got a taste for 3D fixtures. ;)

By the way since your campaign save my become inaccessible during updates, I recommend you use the "export .car file" function on your favorite campaign cars if you're attached to them. This will put a file in documents\my games\automation\CarSaveExport, just move it to CarSaveImport and open the Car Designer.

There are also patch notes for today- they're even shown on the launcher. The biggest improvement is performance in campaign, though it seems like the UI is broken in (some?) existing campaign saves now. It seems like some version of the bug where all of a car's fixtures get swapped with those of another car after loading two cars in photo mode is also back, so make backups of your cars before going into photo mode.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 02:43:30 pm by Sensei »
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Duuvian

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2020, 07:47:12 am »

Yup, the patch notes went up quickly ; it seems I saw the update almost as soon as it was up but in the very short window before patch notes were also up.

I think without knowing for certain that the bug I referred to was actually fixed. At the least, after I started a new campaign I haven't seen it in the around 4 models I designed so far. One was a Utility Ute Pickup, budget of course, and it worked fine this time. I think the reason the bug was still present was because I loaded the campaign save from the previous version without starting a new campaign. My mistake for not starting a new campaign.

Thanks for telling me how to import cars into a new game; that saves so much time because I've been restarting campaigns quite often to learn a good way to setup on day one with minimal resources. I figured there was a way but all I knew about .car was that you can import it into Beam, which I don't have access to (unless it's free)

Also I was wrong in earlier post, it was Dahlua or whatnot that buys terrible vans for Track cars in the late 40's (though you start out without awareness and have to increase that to sell even one car as Track is a tiny demographic)

Is there a wiki of some sort? There is still quite a bit I'm still guessing on or just moving sliders until desirability stops going up. The tooltips are good but its more things like "is starting a tiny factory in Dahlua to sell sports cars with contracted engines a good idea at game start, or does that combination lead to lack of profit?"

I'm going to try a 1 tiny car factory game with no money, but when I was piddling about with that idea the contractor engine factory's tooling time was stuck at 7 months. My last game, I started with a tiny car and small engine factories. I was able to get production started in 1 month in the open beta version, which feels right. If you start with a contractor you have 7 months minimum to start producing unless I am doing it wrong. I guess there is a reason the score % goes up substantially when you start without an engine factory.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2020, 08:12:55 am by Duuvian »
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2020, 06:32:02 pm »

I and a couple other people knew enough to consider doing some real writing on the wiki and an up-to-date campaign guide in 4.0, but we basically decided to wait for 4.1. Now we don't know what's going on any more and things are changing every week. ;)

In 4.1, there's a lot that goes into how customers choose cars (since your competitors are producing an actual, finite number of cars and have Awareness of their own) but the basic gist is that you want to pay attention to both the Competitiveness/Desirability, and Affordability. If your car has a high competitiveness but a 30% affordability, it's not going to sell well (at least in that market) after you add a markup. Sometimes competitiveness and sales predictions are overly pessimistic and you can sell a car which the game says will fail very successfully. Also it's just easy right now- for example you sold some vans to Track buyers because they looked at the market, and there were probably literally no track cars for them to buy, so they said "at least your van is cheap" and drove it around a dirt oval for laughs or something.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #53 on: December 11, 2020, 01:50:39 am »

So, how do we take over and destroy the competition, so we can produce whatever expensive garbage we want and the public must buy?

...you know, like real life.  :P

Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #54 on: December 11, 2020, 08:29:50 pm »

Supposedly there's more coming during 4.1 in terms of the interface which lets you see who your competition is and what sort of cars they're selling, in fact. I don't know if it's even possible for you to make another company go bankrupt, but I'm pretty sure if you successfully hurt their market share you will stifle their growth.

Latest patch 4.1.7 today fixes, among other things, a bug which was causing completely impossibly large sales numbers for basically everyone. This means that presumably, the campaign is more or less playable again for the moment, although still very unbalanced. I'm afraid to say I've been playing the lastest big AAA RPG today so I haven't really tested it though.
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Duuvian

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2020, 09:11:22 am »

In 4.1, there's a lot that goes into how customers choose cars (since your competitors are producing an actual, finite number of cars and have Awareness of their own) but the basic gist is that you want to pay attention to both the Competitiveness/Desirability, and Affordability. If your car has a high competitiveness but a 30% affordability, it's not going to sell well (at least in that market) after you add a markup. Sometimes competitiveness and sales predictions are overly pessimistic and you can sell a car which the game says will fail very successfully. Also it's just easy right now- for example you sold some vans to Track buyers because they looked at the market, and there were probably literally no track cars for them to buy, so they said "at least your van is cheap" and drove it around a dirt oval for laughs or something.

Track Budget % of market sold to:
Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)
The display of the % at least might be bugged.


Here is what I figured out you can do with a tiny car factory and minibuses with contract budget engines:
Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

Here is a shiny pickup:
Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

In my current game I think I waited too long to start using engines other than the budget 1000cc. I'm tapped out on sales potential even after building two small engine factories for it to lower the price. I hit negatives on cash right before the engine factories finishedafter the economy crashed during construction and now I'm paying back $4 million in loans a month. On the plus side, I have a pile of budget cars in stock so I can shut off production and get around $1 million in profits until I need to start building them again (the slider on production limits doesn't seem to work? I had a car hit the 3 month stockpile and I kept losing money; moved the slider and it had way more stockpiled than 3 months so I shut it off)

I think I should have charged aslightly lower margin; I was maximizing profit to afford engine factories. I think I've run into an awareness wall though now so I should have been nicer to the dealerships I guess.

Engine factories are way more expensive than aluminum (no building addon) car factories because you have to buy a building, an iron forge at $30 million, for the smallest engine factory possible.

However the nice thing about engine contractors is that they change the tooling for free; it just takes 7 months, and you don't pay building costs. I think there is no upkeep either; just what amounts to a price increase on the finished engine if I'm understanding it correctly. This means they are free to start, but the downside is they charge more than twice per engine what it can be built for in even the smallest factory you can build. This means and engine factory is a very profitable but very steep expense due to requiring the iron works (and later in the late 50's another pile of cash for the forge building for forged engine gubbins that are cheaper to produce with better performance)

My company prestige also tanked due to selling cheap budget cars with a small cheap engine. I don't know what effect that has on potential sales and awareness, but I'm starting to have to manage production to keep from over producing; I assume it's lack of awareness plus economic recession because the cars are affordable and desirable enough. I do wish the forecast screen had a checkbox or something that sets the screen to the current economic situation and forecast for you. Maybe there is and I missed it; for a while I missed the flip and angle and detach from car button in the Fixtures menu despite it being right there.

I think I should have started a V8 or at least Inline or Box 6 instead of a second budget engine factory because the right side of the demographics chart is barely touched by the company outside of budget convertible, selling only a few cars presumably to people who can't find an affordable enough sports car. Meanwhile I'm hitting my potential sales on some of the budget cars at what I was pricing them at.

EDIT: I also found that bug I mentioned a few posts ago. you were right, it does have something do with offroad.

Specifically, it effects vehicles TARGETTING the offroad budget demographic. It also occurs when targetting as well at the least  one other budget demographic (city b or commuter b if I remember right, I forget which). Other demographics worked fine though I didn't test which worked and which didn't much. I was able to progress by changing targetting from budget to other types of demographic for both trims in the bugged model; passenger fleet for the SUV and nonbudget Utility for the pickup if I remember correctly, and suddenly I was able to forecast and finish the project. That's about all I know about that but changing targetting was a workaround,

The problem seems to be that targetting the offroad budget market plus at least one other demographic breaks something and makes the desirability read 0 and the forecaster not to forecast and prevents the checkbox from being ticked for the project in the sign off screen. The markets button at the end of the car designer process lets you change the target so the forecast screen should load correctly.

EDIT2: Is it possible to start with no money, factories or land? It pretty much breaks the score % to the same absurd level no matter where you start, suggesting it's not intended to be feasible, and seems like maximum difficulty if it's even possible. Is there some possible combination of car design, starting country, and pre-order pricing that allows you to not go instantly bankrupt on the first turn from not having any capital to put up against emergency loans from factory construction? I tried a few times, don't want to waste more attempts if it's not even possible. A related question; does a car factory have to be in the process of construction for a car model before a car model starts taking preorders? I think preorders would be the only way to obtain capital without actually owning anything.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2020, 10:42:24 am by Duuvian »
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Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
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Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2020, 02:18:55 pm »

Your percentage in that first screenshot isn't bugged. You have "limit to awareness" checked. You might only have 5-10% market awareness, but of those people who have the potential to buy from you, more than 10% are doing so in your target markets.

Good catch with the market targeting, I might have to try to replicate it.

As for starting with absolutely no assets, it's definitely not intended to be possible. You need money or some kind of assets against which to take out a loan. However, new features in open beta might have made it possible. You see, bankruptcy works like this, at least in previous versions: the game ends if A) your credit rating is F, AND B) you have negative money, AND C) this state persists for 12 months consecutively. I don't know exactly how bankruptcy works now since it's not possible to have negative money. Instead, you take out a loan automatically. So, hopefully there's still some kind of mechanic which requires you to be in debt for 12 months.

Because you get a 36 month engineering discount on your first car, and factories can be constructed in less than a year, it's possible to release your first car in less than 12 months from the game start. If the sales of that car get your credit rating above F, then you're golden. I don't know exactly how bankruptcy works since the new loan system was implemented however.

Edit: I tried it out of curiosity. It seems that bankruptcy no longer requires 12 months, so I went bankrupt on the very first month despite good income projections. Now when you run out of money, if you aren't deemed credit worthy for the automatic loan, you go bankrupt immediately. This means I somehow went bankrupt despite an A+ credit rating, but I guess they weren't going to give me a loan big enough to cover my operating costs when I had a company valuation of $196k (don't know why it wasn't $0 to be honest- marketing projection maybe.) But there you have it, it's not possible to start out with absolutely no assets.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 02:37:23 pm by Sensei »
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LoSboccacc

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2020, 02:49:29 pm »

Edit: I tried it out of curiosity.

same, it appears there's some wiggle room, I don't fully understand but the type of project does have some influence on the credit % they offer you. I think if you can get that % to a place where it can cover the plot purchase you can survive off preorders, but I'm still trying to understand how it relates to the rest of the project.


or you can exploit some amusing game oversight, plot cost is added to your company valutation even if you don't sign off the projects, so you can create a dump project, add a couple huge plot on it, and the bank will loan you based on plot you'll never build



edit 2: I wonder if it's better to add variant instead of retrofitting, because you have lot of cash that's trapped in preorders: https://i.imgur.com/ns35wqB.png

that is 32k preorders of  which I only got 10% of the car asking price (13k) so there's 3 millions on the line if I could keep the model in the factory and delivered them.

edit 3: scratch that, if you try, the trim even if unmodified is not going to sale
« Last Edit: December 15, 2020, 04:19:14 pm by LoSboccacc »
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Sensei

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2020, 09:05:45 pm »

I just got done with the second Automation Live Racing event! I'm also considering doing some more campaign gameplay in video/stream format, although the balance has it extremely easy right now.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Automation - The Car Company Tycoon Game
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2020, 10:54:33 pm »

Not exactly the best driving ever seen, nice cars though!
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