Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic: Why are the elves in DF short?  (Read 2749 times)

Eqw

  • Escaped Lunatic
    • View Profile
Why are the elves in DF short?
« on: July 28, 2020, 10:15:20 pm »

Title is my entire question
Logged

Iä! RIAKTOR!

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2020, 10:35:12 pm »

In myth they also was short.
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2020, 01:17:21 am »

I think Tolkien "invented" tall (noble? haughty) elves, which I think Iä! RIAKTOR! refers to. (A)D&D then latched on to Tolkien (without getting sued for that, "only" for Hobbits).
Logged

Jundavr

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2020, 01:58:06 am »

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that elves used to be human sized, and just recently changed.

If you read the (now unused) elf diplomat dialogue, the jerk even makes a joke about the diminute stature of dwarves.

"Altough we do not always see eye to eye (ha!), I bid you farewell. May you someday embrace nature as you embrace the rocks and mud."
Logged
I was out in the rain. So exasperating!

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2020, 04:27:12 am »

Elves and dwarves are the same "size". Which makes them (presumably, based on the diplomat dialogue, although not definitively) as tall as dwarves are wide. So probably taller than a dwarf but not as tall, or about the same as a human.

"Tall" itself isn't a concept the game understands yet.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 04:29:23 am by Shonai_Dweller »
Logged

Loam

  • Bay Watcher
  • a Moal
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2020, 07:21:16 am »

Yeah, unit size is volume (or mass? can't remember), not height. I've always thought elves were human-height but thin/light, while dwarves are short and stocky, and goblins (also same size) are in between.

I'm not sure about the size of Norse elves. Tolkien's elves, I believe, are based more on English/Celtic fairies: while modern fairies are portrayed as diminutive, in the original sources (such as the Irish legends) they were immortal, magical precursors to human races, and were human sized (some were even bigger than humans). So Tolkien didn't really "invent" tall elves - he just re-popularized them.
Logged
Thob Goes to the Surface (Adventure Mode story, in progress)

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2020, 07:48:22 am »

Tall is a word the game does apply, sorta: ||

Just doesn't apply to elves. All their appearance sizing mods are same as dwarves. Also, since dwarves are more swole, they're taller than elves.

Uthimienure

  • Bay Watcher
  • O frabjous day!!
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2020, 12:20:07 pm »

I believe Tolkien also indicated that after the Fourth Age began, any elves remaining in Middle Earth (those who did not travel back to the undying lands) began to diminish in stature as well as becoming very shy of humans. Those elves became reclusive in the woodlands and we can imagine them becoming similar to fairy-folk of other legends after humans became completely dominant. Thus giving rise to the other mythologies of elves. Please correct me if my memory is faulty on this.
Logged
"I've never really had issues with the old DF interface (I mean, I loved even 'umkh'!)" ... brewer bob
As we say in France: "ah, l'amour toujours l'amour"... François D.

Loam

  • Bay Watcher
  • a Moal
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2020, 07:51:49 am »

Can't say for sure, canon-wise, but that sounds consistent at least.

Tall is a word the game does apply, sorta: ||

Just doesn't apply to elves. All their appearance sizing mods are same as dwarves. Also, since dwarves are more swole, they're taller than elves.
Hmm, I always took the appearance-sizing mods to be relative to the creature: so, "he is tall" means "tall for an elf/dwarf/human." After all I think humans have the same size mods, but are larger by mass and preferred for their "stature"; even a "short" human might still be taller than a dwarf.

I mean, not that it matters. Y'all think of elves however you want.
Logged
Thob Goes to the Surface (Adventure Mode story, in progress)

Fleeting Frames

  • Bay Watcher
  • Spooky cart at distance
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2020, 06:41:07 pm »

I speculate you could mod the appearance rate so that all elves are tall or something. It'd make them bigger than average human, though still able to wear dwarf-sized clothes.

"or something". Near as I can tell, being tall is not any different than <long> or <wide> for combat or anything else; all just body size increases.

knutor

  • Bay Watcher
  • ..to hear the lamentation of the elves!
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2020, 03:49:20 pm »

What is the Jolly Green Giant most afraid of?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Logged
"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

Ziusudra

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2020, 05:44:01 pm »

What is the Jolly Green Giant most afraid of?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged
Ironblood didn't use an axe because he needed it. He used it to be kind. And right now he wasn't being kind.

Superdorf

  • Bay Watcher
  • Soothly we live in mighty years!
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2020, 10:06:45 pm »

Seeing as the game doesn't really define height as distinct from body weight, I just assume DF elves are tall and skinny.
Logged
Falling angel met the rising ape, and the sound it made was

klonk
tormenting the player is important
Sigtext

Saiko Kila

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dwarven alchemist
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2020, 12:43:04 pm »

The game doesn't really define their height, as in posture (as a species), but their volume (which can be approximated to mass). Elves, just like goblins and dwarves have average volume of 60 litres (or average mass of about 60kg), while humans are 70 litres creatures (~70 kg). Of course your dwarves will be almost always bulkier, because they are fat (thanks to cheap junk food), but that's a different matter.

The description, as explained in posts above, are based on the average of a given species, so not comparable to other species. We don't really now if the elves are short - compared to dwarves. We know if a given elf is short compared to other elves.
Logged

Uthimienure

  • Bay Watcher
  • O frabjous day!!
    • View Profile
Re: Why are the elves in DF short?
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2020, 07:26:24 pm »

(snip)Of course your dwarves will be almost always bulkier, because they are fat (thanks to cheap junk food), but that's a different matter. (snip)
They don't call them plump helmets for nothing.
Logged
"I've never really had issues with the old DF interface (I mean, I loved even 'umkh'!)" ... brewer bob
As we say in France: "ah, l'amour toujours l'amour"... François D.
Pages: [1] 2