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Author Topic: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness  (Read 890 times)

Orange-of-Cthulhu

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In the mood debate, I in fact thing the system works fine.

BUT that it is simply so complex that many players have problems with figuring it out. And that makes people think it doesn't work, and pherhaps decreases their enjoyment of the game. I that the happyness boosters are too hidden for players. And when it is so hard to see fortwide effects in the game of the things you do regarding mental health, well probably many players do not do much about it.

I think what works is more the cumulative effect of many things - the easy ones as legendary dining room, blissfull bedsooms, interesting expensive statues in the hallways etc. The harder ones - giving dwarves enough free time to pray/read books. And then more tedious stuff like making (and managing!) 10 squads set to train wrestiling 1 or 2 months a year, as a sort of fitness club to generate happy thoughts of "relieved a sparring session."

I also think that the way it is set up dwarf happyness is an integral part of the game, as important as the booze supply and such. It's something you need to devote a lot of playing time to - But it is mostly overlooked by players.

My solutions to this is to intruduce in the games hints to the player as regarding to what can be done to make the dwarves happier.

Off course, indications exist already in the negative/positive thoughs in the dwarf info screen.

But it is information overload to most players to look through 150 dwarves and gauge whether it would work best to work hard on getting masterwork clothes and meals, or if you oppositely need to give the dwarves more time to chill so they can pray.

I think these hints need to be supplied with an "executive summary" for the player.

So - once in a while a system will read through all the happy/unhally thoughts in the fort should, check for "most common unhappy thought", "least common happy thought" and such and you'd get a message about it.

Messages

"lack of military training is a heavy burden on the hearts of the dwarves in the fort" (if martial happy thoughs were the most rare)

"no dwarves expressed happiness with the food"

"satisfaction with bedrooms is at an all-time low."

"The dwarves are restless because the have no time to pray."

Maybe also progress reports

"The satisfaction of bedrooms has greatly increased since the last report!"

This IMO would make it easier for players to fix the biggest "holes" in the defense against collective insanity. It would make it possible to ignore the hints as well, if you don't feel like making the dwarves happy. And at the very least, if you have been disregarding messages of unhappiness because of crappy bedrooms for years, you's feel ownership of the problem if suddenly they all went nuts.

I'd say the best place for these hints would be the mayors screen in the nobles screen - this would also make the mayor usefull. You'd like the mayor better, because you needed to go to his screen in order to check what it important to do to increase happiness. So he'd feel like he was usefull like the bookkeeper and the broker.

The messages should off course be extremely humorous and funny! And I prefer to have them inside the mayor's screen to you can choose to not look at them, if you don't care. They should not pop up in the screen so you needed to click return to get rid of it and keep the game moving on.
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Leonidas

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2020, 11:57:48 pm »

+1

There has been lots of talk about the mechanics of how different circumstances affect a dwarf's happiness. But a brilliant system of stress factors is irrelevant if it's opaque. The game already has a blizzard of traits and preferences that are presumably interconnected in fascinating ways---except that the players don't understand the connections. So lots of work has gone into a system that the players can't use or appreciate.

There are many other games out there that revolve around keeping virtual citizens happy, and each has to face the same sort of challenge. I hope that the Brothers Adams have looked at some of those games in designing the new stress system. Even though the mechanics of happiness vary widely from game to game, the task of summarizing and presenting the information is pretty much the same every time. Players always ask the same three questions:

1. Why did my person do that? Why did they choose Option A over Option B. In DF, this would mean displaying the numbers on each dwarf's needs for hunger, sleep, socialization, worship, etc. The Sims series, for example, has an elegant system of need bars that show whether your virtual person is likely to seek out food, entertainment, or the bathroom.

2. Why is this person happy or unhappy? DF has some of this now, but it's very indirect and confusing. And, as has already been discussed at great length, the underlying formulas are broken.

3. What's driving the happiness or unhappiness of my people overall? This is OP's point: If several citizens have the same source of unhappiness, then the game needs to combine that data and present it. Do the dwarves need better food, nicer bedrooms, fancier clothes, or more temples? Right now, the game tells you nothing.

To the many players out there: What management-type games do you think do a good job of presenting psychological information?
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 11:45:35 pm by Leonidas »
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clockwork

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2020, 10:12:47 pm »

I will second this suggestion.

It would be nice to have a chart or graph that represents a fort's collective needs.

It's sensible and I think it could improve the gameplay. It would give players clear goals to fulfill.

Adventure mode "kind of" has this already for the player character's needs.
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Superdorf

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2020, 10:23:48 am »

Monthly/seasonal mayor's report sounds awesome. Can make it an entry with the other "R"eports and everything!
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peacefortress

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2020, 12:02:10 pm »

+1
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Azerty

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2020, 12:52:41 pm »

Monthly/seasonal mayor's report sounds awesome. Can make it an entry with the other "R"eports and everything!

And quality would depend of the mayor's skill.
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Orange-of-Cthulhu

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Re: (Mood and Mayor) Give the player hints at how to increase fort happiness
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2020, 07:02:17 am »

+1

There has been lots of talk about the mechanics of how different circumstances affect a dwarf's happiness. But a brilliant system of stress factors is irrelevant if it's opaque. The game already has a blizzard of traits and preferences that are presumably interconnected in fascinating ways---except that the players don't understand the connections. So lots of work has gone into a system that the players can't use or appreciate.

There are many other games out there that revolve around keeping vitual citizens happy, and each has to face the same sort of challenge. I hope that the Brothers Adams have looked at some of those games in designing the new stress system. Even though the mechanics of happiness vary widely from game to game, the task of summarizing and presenting the information is pretty much the same every time. Players always ask the same three questions:

1. Why did my person do that? Why did they choose Option A over Option B. In DF, this would mean displaying the numbers on each dwarf's needs for hunger, sleep, socialization, worship, etc. The Sims series, for example, has an elegant system of need bars that show whether your virtual person is likely to seek out food, entertainment, or the bathroom.

2. Why is this person happy or unhappy? DF has some of this now, but it's very indirect and confusing. And, as has already been discussed at great length, the underlying formulas are broken.

3. What's driving the happiness or unhappiness of my people overall? This is OP's point: If several citizens have the same source of unhappiness, then the game needs to combine that data and present it. Do the dwarves need better food, nicer bedrooms, fancier clothes, or more temples? Right now, the game tells you nothing.

To the many players out there: What management-type games do you think do a good job of presenting psychological information?

As to individual diagonosis. I haven't thought about that, but yes, you want to know why this specific dwarf has become haggard and drawn, or what he/she needs. I think yes, it would improve the game, because you'd have an idea of what to do.

I'd like to add that - I think it should be the job of the chief medical dwarf. So not only does the chief medical dwarf fix broken bones and such, he will also do preventive medicine and do something to adress the happiness of the dwarfs.

So when a dwarf becoms haggard or maybe changes a level in happiness, the medical dwarf gets a job "assess happiness", and he goes to the dwarf in question and asks him what the problem is. The quality of the report should depend on his skills. A low skilled dwarf just tells you "not enough recreation", a better diagnosis tells you "not enough prayer, because the unhappy dwarf is constantly mining."

I think it should also be possible to create a job for the medical job to check the happiness of specific dwarfs.

This is, if you want to be able to "protect" an important dwarf, say your legendary armorsmith and really go out on a limb for him. You should be able to get the information about what would make him happier - so you could do something in the game that would achieve this.

As it is, you really just fight in the dark. You give important dwarves a huge bedroom and try to not overwork them and cross fingers. But if you were told "he really needs to eat leopard brain", it would create gameplay.

If i HAD that information, I'd make it a thing to try to get some leopards and butcher them. And it would create a story about my raiding of the elves cauising a huge war - and the beginning of the war was that an armorsmith wanted to eat leopard.

I think the more information you have, the more projects the player would initiate. It would create mini-missions, like when a noble demands more armor stands. Except these missions would be much more variety, and the player would initiate them, which to me is much cooler than getting the (I guess) random noble demands.
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