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Author Topic: Numbercurse - Competitive - The Curse has been Lifted  (Read 29027 times)

Salmeuk

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Numbercurse - Competitive - The Curse has been Lifted
« on: September 10, 2020, 10:30:00 pm »

For now, competition is suspended. If a new competition is begun, a new thread will be created.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Behold, my attempt at designing a competitive fortress succession game.


The Rules:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To summarize; You will be given an in-game year to make as much of the specified item as you possibly can. This will test your game knowledge, efficiency, and tenacity. Upon finishing that year, you will upload the save and I will confirm whatever number you have come up with by investigating your save, and then publicly declare the scores and the winners to all. That map will become the starting map for the next year, a new specified item will be declared, and the next set of players will attempt to 180 whatever mono-industry was established the previous year, to meet the new demands and achieve the win. As well, the winner of the previous year will have their named dwarf kicking around the following year, which is kind of fun.

Some potential questions are answered below:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Embark:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Player ||Round 1      ||Round 2      ||Round 3      ||Round 4      ||Round 5      ||Round 6  (current)   ||
CLICK FOR
FORTRESS
REVIEW
CLICK FOR
FORTRESS
REVIEW
CLICK FOR
FORTRESS
REVIEW
CLICK FOR
FORTRESS
REVIEW
CLICK FOR
FORTRESS
REVIEW
RadiponWINNER
Gulag
341pts
Rule
Breaker

1219pts
PASSED
Quantum DropBenelovent
Overseer

43pts
Fertile
Fields

636pts
PASSED
appletScrooge
McDuck

314pts
Pothead
1468pts
WINNER
Creator

1,096,200pts
StrikaAmaruVariety
337pts
Friend of
Turkey

1084pts
PASSEDWINNER
Forgemaster

4pts
SpriggansPASSEDWINNER
Liquid
Engineer

1563pts
PASSEDMagma
Engineer

2pts
DelphonsoPASSEDLast
Minute

1213pts
Neat Freak
25,400pts
Irreverent
1pts


______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

For round 6, we're playing Zoo Tycoon, but in Hell:

Undead Zoo! Vesh's demon has whispered in your ear - variety is the spice of Death! Each unique 'species' of caged undead creature is worth a point at the end of the year. (clarification below). High score wins, ties are unlikely and will be dealt with in a democratic fashion.


So, clarification and examples:

1. Species, not kinds. A creature is a creature, regardless of sex or profession. For example, gobbos: A Bowman is the same as a Lasher, and a female goblin is the same as a male goblin.

2. Caged body parts will be counted as another member of their original species. So, an undead dwarven hand and an undead dwarven torso are equivalent to a 'complete' undead dwarf. The list of potential 'unique' undead body parts totally dwarfs the list of potentially-acquirable unique species, and would sort of ruin the challenge, since splitting apart a creature or two and caging the results would nullify someone elses concerted effort in capturing, killing, and reanimating a variety of species.

3. Vampires will count as undead and the above scoring rules will apply. So, assuming you can capture or create two vampires of different species, you would receive two points. do this it would be legendary

4. Thralls, Husks, and other varieties of undead will count as well, though we are unlikely to encounter any AFAIK. Perhaps a captured tavern visitor, though, we don't really have a tavern right now. .



Round 6 save is here:
https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15308
Round 6 scoring rules posted here:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177212.msg8213841#msg8213841
_____________________________________________________

For now, competition is suspended. If a new competition is begun, a new thread will be created.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2020, 02:57:16 am by Salmeuk »
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auzewasright

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2020, 10:37:05 pm »

Not sure if I'll join, but definitely PTW.
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Radipon

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2020, 05:56:02 am »

Embark 3 for sure. Iron and evil.
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Quantum Drop

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2020, 05:59:14 am »

Count me in as playing. I'd go with embark 3 as well - only played in one evil biome so far, but it's certainly going to be Fun.
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Spriggans

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2020, 06:48:38 am »

I think I'll PTW. Embark 3 seems interresting indeed.

Some suggestions :
- Maybe the OP should embark, with whatever skills/items/pets he chooses. Then upload the 0th year 1st granite save for every player to play. So every player has the same basis to work with.
 Or maybe not ! Maybe let the players spend their 1000 points how they like and go nuts ! It can go both ways really.

- Instead of making a certain amount of items, maybe add in quality factors to some extent ? I mean 50 -chalk doors- are way less valuable than a single ☼Rose gold door☼
 => You could use it to make some stupid year quests like : "You have one year to produce the single most valuable-artifact-banned door ! You may decorate it with gems, and stones and metal studs and whatever !" Could be Fun :)

- Can new players join-in, say, in the 5th year ?
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 08:08:50 am by Spriggans »
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King Zultan

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2020, 08:12:21 am »

Probably won't join as I suck at fortress but PTW anyway.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #6 on: September 11, 2020, 09:06:46 am »

Awesome, so we have two players already (Radipon and Quantum Drop). Gonna PM some other's from my previous succession games to get more interest. If we can get at least +1 player we will start on 9/14/20, and I will post the 'specified item type' around 7am PST.

I think I'll PTW. Embark 3 seems interresting indeed.

Some suggestions :
-snip-

Ah, these are good points! I'll answer them line-by-line.

Quote
Maybe the OP should embark, with whatever skills/items/pets he chooses. Then upload the 0th year 1st granite save for every player to play. So every player has the same basis to work with.

That was my plan, actually! I'm looking at the OP now and realize that I left out a lot of little details. Expect some updates today.

Quote
Instead of making a certain amount of items, maybe add in quality factors to some extent ? I mean 50 -chalk doors- are way less valuable than a single ☼Rose gold door☼
 => You could use it to make some stupid year quests like : "You have one year to produce the single most valuable-artifact-banned door ! You may decorate it with gems, and stones and metal studs and whatever !" Could be Fun

Hmm, alright, I like this idea but I have to double check I can easily and accurately value the created items. Truthfully, I feel like trying to make a single hyper-valuable item is less interesting gameplay wise, as it would just be a lot of micromanagement with very little macro expansion. Though, there are the questions of how to most efficiently decorate an item, how to best mine for the rarest gems (identifying mineral layers and whatnot), and how to pick the most skilled dwarf for the job. I do enjoy the alternate strats that this valuation might allow. Consider this a possibility we'll save for later. For now, I want to see if the basic formula works.

Quote
Can new players join-in, say, in the 5th year ?

Absolutely! I want this to be as open as possible. Again, traditional succession games often lead to long wait lists, and people forgetting they even signed up. I'm hoping this format leads to a quick turnover - a week of playing, a determination, then back to playing.

- - - -

Ahh, but embark 2 has  such interesting topography! You guys are such suckers for iron. I will note that this world has a healthy population of goblins that are within easy walking distance. You will all share the same yet-to-be-determined popcap, but I can't stop you from banishing unwanted dwarves, so there is some strategy in choosing how many dwarves you are working with.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2020, 09:19:07 am by Salmeuk »
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delphonso

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #7 on: September 11, 2020, 10:54:55 am »

PTW - super cool concept, Sal. Unfortunately I can't commit right now.

applet

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #8 on: September 11, 2020, 11:26:15 am »

Sure, I'll play.

What stuck out for me with embark 3 is the lack of water.. (unless there's an aquifer in a shared biome), which naturally means I'll have to vote for it.

Couple of things to consider.

1. 4x4 embarks without popcap quickly turn to lag in my experience - thus limiting how fast one can complete a turn.

2. Since everyone's (potentially) playing all the time, a 2 week limit instead of 1 week is still going to lead to lots of play for all players.

3. The thread might explode with journals and comments around journals making that hard to follow - if one desires. This may or may not be an actual issue, but if it becomes, perhaps a separate thread with just the journals would be useful.
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After 3 days, the new cat explodes.

recon1o6

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2020, 05:38:07 am »

ptw

irl being a pain atm, but it looks fun nonetheless!
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Salmeuk

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2020, 11:00:26 pm »

Cool. Applet makes a happy 3, so we'll kick it off this at 7:00 AM PST on Monday, 9/14. I will send a PM out to all players as a heads up, and post a corresponding 'reminder ruleset,' so no one forgets to do important things like dwarf themselves.

Thank you all who volunteered! There is still time to jump in if anyone wants.


Sure, I'll play.

What stuck out for me with embark 3 is the lack of water.. (unless there's an aquifer in a shared biome), which naturally means I'll have to vote for it.

Couple of things to consider.

1. 4x4 embarks without popcap quickly turn to lag in my experience - thus limiting how fast one can complete a turn.

2. Since everyone's (potentially) playing all the time, a 2 week limit instead of 1 week is still going to lead to lots of play for all players.

3. The thread might explode with journals and comments around journals making that hard to follow - if one desires. This may or may not be an actual issue, but if it becomes, perhaps a separate thread with just the journals would be useful.

RE:

1. That is true. I always forget how lucky I am to run this game decently, up to 80 dwarves at least. And, considering that I'm requesting you guys literally spam items, things might go south faster than expected. I'll bump it down to a 3x4, in order to preserve the mineral diversity (this will make things interesting later).

2. How about this? I want to keep this game going quickly, and the first year probably wont take very long anyways (they typically fly by in less than a couple hours for me), so we'll make it a 'request a second week if you need it.' Anyone who needs an extension to two weeks can simply post in the thread, letting us know they need the time, and we will bump it to two weeks. At the same time, if everyone submits their turns early, we can agree to start the next round pre-emptively if people are ready to go!

3. I will request that everyone posts their journals in spoilers, and I will do my best to keep track of the journaling in the OP for future readers. I have so much free time right now, and I won't be playing / writing myself, so as host I think I can keep things pretty organized for us. Plus, I don't want to have two threads dedicated to what is ostensibly an experimental game.

Thank you for the feedback. I really should have reserved a post after the OP, oops.


The Chosen Embark:

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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2020, 01:56:38 am »

I volunteer as tribute overseer!

Embark 3 looks interesting, too; if I'd have read my messages in time, I'd have probably voted for E1, because light aquifers have grown on me. On the other hand, I was kinda hankering for a Sinister embark too.

DfHack-wise, the commands I use / consider 'fair': cleanowned, getplants PLANT_ID, showmood (it looks nicer), prospect (without reveal), and multilevel if I play on 'full' LNP (in this version I don't); presumably all of these are acceptable.

PST is 10 hours behind local time, so I'm almost sure to turn up at 5PM; presumably I'll be done with work at that time, but you never know.

EDIT: Speaking of timezones... I kinda presumed that forum time is Pacific time, but clearly it isn't; I mean, this message was posted at almost 10AM local, and the timestamp is at almost 2AM. The tags under my user name are correct... and I'm a bit confused.

EDIT2: Can we have Phoebus as 'official' tileset? Judging by succession forts, everybody's using it anyway.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2020, 02:16:52 am by StrikaAmaru »
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[Sigtext. Contains links to mods, LPs and an index of all the things I wrote on this forum. Does not contain a viable sig. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=49316.msg6860463#msg6860463]

Spriggans

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2020, 03:06:13 am »

Yeah. I am GMT+1, or maybe +2 depending on time of year...
I honestly have no idea where others are and if or not they are sleeping.

I just post my things when I can, and wait 24hours, by then I assume at least some people have read it.
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Salmeuk

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2020, 03:48:26 am »

Welcome Aboard, StrikaAmaru! That makes 4 competitors for the first round. ETA 5 hours for the final few rules, and of course the target item declaration!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yeah, it looks like the forum time is Central Time (Midwest + Great Lakes), which seems random, but perhaps the server is hosted there. Whatever the case, ya'll will get the full 7 Days to finish, or more if requested.

All those utilities seem fair. I kind of assumed that all volunteers are able / willing to use DFhack. If anyone isn't, I am more than happy to post the full prospect_all logs that I generated when finding the embarks. If you aren't using DFhack you will probably be at a disadvantage when it comes to identifying 'problem' dwarves (this is 47.04 after all, aka 'THE RAIN MAKES ME SAD' version), and certain things like building walls or managing labors is infinitely easier with hack installed. However, I don't think the disadvantage is so significant as to prevent competition. There are so many utilities and scripts that I won't bother making an approved list, at least for now. Maybe if people bring up some 'questionable' scripts that might give a slight edge, we can talk.

I don't feel the need to make an 'official' tileset, since really I can't force people to use one. Sorry! I am partial to ASCII tilesets myself.
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NordicNooob

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Re: Salmeuk's Community Challenge - A Competitive Take on the Succession Game
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2020, 08:25:38 am »

Time to be a last-minute entrant! This sounds like a good time.

And say... wouldn't sabotaging the fort in a way that only you're comfortable playing with be a great idea? We're not trying to have a successful fort, after all, we're trying to win.
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