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Author Topic: The Cataclysm games thread.  (Read 103496 times)

King Zultan

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #630 on: April 18, 2022, 02:26:33 am »

Does that mean that at some point they'll be able to make the entire US as the game map?


Also why the hell did they stop letting us grab crap with E key?
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KittyTac

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #631 on: April 18, 2022, 04:51:06 am »

1. Well at least New England, yeah. It would be cool for it to be possible to go to Canada or the Midwest but that's far future.
2. Standardization, the new UI is honestly neater once you get used to it. I always used g so it was easy for me. e when hovering over an item to examine it, w to wield.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #632 on: April 18, 2022, 10:23:23 am »

Does that mean that at some point they'll be able to make the entire US as the game map?


Also why the hell did they stop letting us grab crap with E key?

The duality of Cataclysm, summarized.
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Iceblaster

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #633 on: April 18, 2022, 01:05:01 pm »

Yeah I messed with keybinds to fix that up as soon as I realized that changed. Aaaaaa

Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #634 on: April 18, 2022, 04:55:09 pm »

Meanwhile in BN, I've got a few more updates open:
1. A change to fix up the janky function that spawns vending machines broken. In the old days vending machines would spawn intact 80% of the time. It got nerfed HARD, a base rate of a mere 25% of the time on day zero, and then it gets measurably worse with every day, for example down to about 9% literally by the end of the week. Current rate I've chosen is a simple 50% rate that's in between the pre-nerf value and Night's chosen base value, and also tweaked the hypothetical max amount of loot so the average loot per vending machine isn't beefed up too much.
2. Added max durations to several effects that could stack up to be nigh-infinite. Most of these were stuff like effects doled out by fields, fixing for example how you could be fucked over by. It also fixes deafness being stackable infinitely, something that's also still uncapped in DDA.
3. And finally, a PR to bring back royal jelly actually having a use, but with some rebalancing. Royal jelly's spawns and item description were tweaked to specify that this stuff is post-cataclysm from mutant insects, and its cureall effect is different from panacea and pre-realism royal jelly. Its cureall effect is a bit narrower than panacea, and it also gives an antitoxin effect that reduces the symptoms of poison status effects, as compared to panacea which will cure it outright.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #635 on: April 21, 2022, 07:59:32 pm »

So, more stuff while I'm at it. Sim's take on the ballistic damage type PR was merged earlier today, so been slowly working to update third-party mods that I'm involved in maintaining. Arcana and Tankmod: Revived have been updated, sent an update to Cataclysm++ that's currently open. Will check other mods for any such stuff too.

I've also got some follow-up updates I need to do for BN related to ballistic damage type stuff, when I get the chance, and I'm working on setting aside patchmods to fix the stuff I grumbled about earlier regarding the DDA version of Arcana. Got the Arcana/Cata++ patchmod just about done, started initial work on the Dinomod patchmod too.

Also, I got curious and did some testing when I got home, this is...interdasting. Quick repost here:
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Glloyd

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #636 on: April 22, 2022, 01:06:12 am »

Noticed in the CDDA commits , there was something rather amazing :
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/56778

https://preview.redd.it/if4q4u81b0u81.png?width=1069&format=png&auto=webp&s=a664ae14406b92b3316e64d7710a2e3bccc306ed

I hope it means some people will be able to make more real life locations maps like this one in the future.

It's a neat gimmick, but until they actually rip the guts out of the godawful city and road generation, it'll only ever be a gimmick. My big pet peeve is the massive Isherwood special that always looks so out of place, especially on the pics from that mod. Speaking of bad map generation, I had this wild bit of map gen recently:

Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

Even aside from the many many redundant bridges, there's a lot to unpack there.

Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #637 on: April 22, 2022, 01:48:42 am »

Mapgen is pretty cursed and I don't think there's any easy way to fix it, yeah. Neat gimmick but it falls under "time spent dawdling on more unfinished projects instead of any of the maintenance and support that will be needed before said new content will ever be worthwhile" fairly solidly.

Meanwhile we've had a solid month of one contributor just going hardcore into every performance improvement they can get out of the code, which seems the most likely explanation for why BN's draw benchmark is just shy of 5 times better than DDA's.

Meanwhile in my own shit, here's the first batch of follow-up updates to the ballistic damage PR I mentioned earlier. I've also updated the BN versions of all the third-party mods I'm involved in, so they should all be ready to deal with bullet stuff.

ALSO! I forgot to link to the self-PR I've been working on for Arcana: https://github.com/chaosvolt/cdda-arcana-mod/pull/254

I've set aside patchmod stuff for Cata++ and Dinomod currently, both DDA and BN versions in both cases.

The Cata++ patchmod adds:
1. Martial arts interactions. The bionic sword, converted bionic blade, and converted bionic bionic sword can be used with Via Gladium et Malleo. The converted bionic claws, biological knife, biological sword, and salvaged mi-go claw weapon can be used with Shrike's Talons. And third, the cursed blade and restored ritual blade are juuuust beefy enough to justify being usable with Post-Human Combatives.
2. Deconstruction recipes for the biological weapons. Aside from being meaty and metal (thus leaving behind some tainted bone meal and super alloy), they also return an eclectic mix of regular, dull, and blood essence. This is based off an idea Noctifer thought up a while ago, in which the biological weapons incorporate aspects of both living mutated flesh and otherworldly influence in a magic item, and are effectively the only cases of LIVING magic items in either mod, meaning that trying to consecrate them would be much more complex than simply getting dull essence out of them.
3. The DDA version of the patchmod now has the mod-compat itemgroup injections, because they no longer automatically play nice regardless of load order like they still do in the BN version.
4. I also belatedly added some NPC equipment interactions between the two mods, with certain arcanist NPCs having a chance of being equipped with some Cata++-specific weapons. This is now a part of the BN version of Cata++ automatically, and present in the DDA version of the patchmod.

Meanwhile, the Dinomod patchmod is afair bit simpler, but still fairly long list of JSON entries I had to meddle with:
1. Monster overrides for various dinosaurs for thesake of injecting essence and/or monsterpart drops into them. There are SO GOD DAMN MANY different dinos with very little meaningful variation between them, it made my fingers hurt with all the copy-paste I had to do. In practice there are only three categories of dino that matter here though: fungal zombie dinos, shady zombie dios, skeletal zombie dinos. Bionic dinos are a maybe for the to-be-fucked-with todo list, unlike most bionic zombies in vanilla none of them have the electrical attack that I generally use as a sign of whether to give a bionic zed a wind fragment drop.
2. Death drop itemgroups for the above. For now it's just three itemgroups that all the relevant dinos share among themselves, because fuck having to copy-paste 78 separate entries a second time, especially since I didn't see much reason to make their drops vary all that much. Fungal zombie dinos have the same basic inflorescent root drop that's associated with fungal monsters, plus randomly either essence or blood essence (in line with how fungaloids return essence, standard zombies blood essence, ergo fungal zombies pick one at random). Shady zombie dinos go for just blood essence and sometimes a shadow gem, and finally skeletal zombie dinos can yield blood essence plus a random any one of the four monsterparts usable for making a bone charm.

Still planning to add patchmods for Magiclysm and Aftershock, the former is gonna be...interesting. Lots of weapons that are just vanilla weapons but with damage/accurate bonuses, so they'll likely go in relevant martial arts, and lots of nasty monsters that deserve some death drops.

Slight possibility that I might even find space to inject Arcana monsters into Magiclysm monstergroups, MAYBE vice versa, depending on if they're thematically relevant. Given Magiclysm leans a lot more towards generic D&D monsters it will be harder to find good places for each other to fit however, they'd stick out like a sore thumb among living shadows and/or wind, Lovecraft critters, mutated cultist zombies, and the occasional feral arcanist.

Aftershock meanwhile should be very basic, just look for any itemgroup stuff I can easily mess with, it's mostly just sci-fi stuff so chances are not much aside from magitech showing up in odd places will be needed. Maybe some monsterdrop overrides if any of the creatures in it are freaky enough, but if I recall mutant/zombie uplifted animals is the weirdest it gets. Being able to consecrate any freaky enough high-tech extradimensional superscience might be one addition I could explore.
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KittyTac

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #638 on: April 22, 2022, 08:37:25 am »

TBH if you use a real map then the mapgen issues will go away for obvious reasons lmao. But I agree, mapgen is cursed.
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Robsoie

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #639 on: April 22, 2022, 01:37:21 pm »

It's a neat gimmick, but until they actually rip the guts out of the godawful city and road generation, it'll only ever be a gimmick.

I see its potential being more than a gimmick, as if it allows someone to create their own maps it may then allow them be able to place cities and roads manually too. And that is so much potential to recreate real world regions with interesting cities and roads.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #640 on: April 22, 2022, 01:55:45 pm »

Followups to my testing of performance, I was asked later on to test if tileset made a difference, it doesn't on my laptop. About the same results using Ultica and Retrodays in DDA, UDP and Retrodays in BN. I then tested both of those MSVC builds on my laptop (2.60 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM) and found the following:

BN: "drew 554 times in 5.007 seconds (110.645 FPS average)" with UDP, "drew 643 times in 5.001 seconds (128.574 FPS average)" with Retrodays

DDA: "drew 267 times in 5.008 seconds (53.315 FPS average)" when tested with Ultica, "drew 276 times in 5.016 seconds (55.024 FPS average)" with Retrodays.

So performance boosts in BN are more strongly affected by either CPU, RAM, or both compared to DDA, but even under measurably worse conditions (half the RAM, ~76.5% CPU speed, also half the cores) its worse performance thus far is well above DDA's best so far.

Also indicates that SOMETIMES tileset matters. My best guess is because my laptop has AMD Radeon integrated graphics vs. my desktop's Intel HD.

The ultimate test I guess would be to break out my previous desktop (1.6 GHz CPU, 4 GB RAM, fairly certain dual-core, older version of Intel graphics) to see if BN's stated FPS stays triple-digits, because that's reasonably into the potato end of the spectrum by modern desktop standards.
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Robsoie

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #641 on: April 22, 2022, 02:08:58 pm »

I'm not sure it is really important to have 50 or 110 fps in something that does not feature animations and is turn based ?

I think what would be the most important is testing something like sleeping 5 or 6 hours at night in the surface of a house (in the same save if it's possible to have one that is compatible with both cdda and cbn) and see which code can play those 5 or 6 sleeping hours the fastest.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #642 on: April 22, 2022, 02:26:42 pm »

I'm not sure it is really important to have 50 or 110 fps in something that does not feature animations and is turn based ?

Draw benchmark seems to be more about how many actions it can process in a given time rather than actual "FPS" in the same sense that it'd mean for a real-time game, far as I can determine. So hypothetically, doing the benchmark in the refugee center SHOULD have some correlation with how it'd handle long-term actions and general processing there.

Just to confirm that, started up a game in the refugee center. Currently doing this with just BN on my desktop, result was "drew 1045 times in 5.002 seconds (208.916 FPS average)" which means that yes, the "FPS" test actually does check for performance stuff that will actually go into gameplay. Compare that with my earlier BN test of 245.141 "FPS" which was just in a bog-standard evac shelter start.

So just for good measure, I loaded up DDA and hopped into the refugee center (again, MSVC build from 4/21, on my desktop) and benchmark result this time was "drew 251 times in 5.009 seconds (50.110 FPS average)"

So it seems that being somewhere beefy like an NPC-laden refugee center doesn't affect DDA at all but does take a decent chunk out of BN's performance, but the optimizations still trim enough fat that BN still reports way better performance.
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Random_Dragon

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #643 on: April 22, 2022, 03:04:05 pm »

So, turns out there was an error on my end. BN has "draw benchmark" and "FPS benchmark" of which I've been using the latter. But, turns out that "FPS benchmark" in BN is closer to what DDA's draw benchmark tests, due to this PR updating things.

According to Olanti the difference in frames still has some meaning but it's not as vital as I first thought it was:
Quote
[2:59 PM] olanti: More draw frames means code is faster
[2:59 PM] olanti: More FPS frames means code is friends with the OS
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Iceblaster

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Re: The Cataclysm games thread.
« Reply #644 on: April 22, 2022, 03:06:33 pm »

Noticed in the CDDA commits , there was something rather amazing :
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/56778

https://preview.redd.it/if4q4u81b0u81.png?width=1069&format=png&auto=webp&s=a664ae14406b92b3316e64d7710a2e3bccc306ed

I hope it means some people will be able to make more real life locations maps like this one in the future.

It's a neat gimmick, but until they actually rip the guts out of the godawful city and road generation, it'll only ever be a gimmick. My big pet peeve is the massive Isherwood special that always looks so out of place, especially on the pics from that mod. Speaking of bad map generation, I had this wild bit of map gen recently:

Spoiler: large image (click to show/hide)

Even aside from the many many redundant bridges, there's a lot to unpack there.

You say wild mapgen, I say I would love to play that.
I looooove water worlds in CDDA, gives me a reason to build boats.
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