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Author Topic: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?  (Read 1009 times)

towerator

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My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« on: January 12, 2021, 04:25:00 am »

I was in winter of the fourth year when I see that I'm being sieged by goblins. No big deal, I have 2 squads up and running. However, something bugged me since the start: Why do I have so many engravings of demons fighting stuff?

https://imgur.com/a/tUCAYlJ

Oh.

Oh no.

It's not that much about the demons themselves (they seem rather weak), however the "spirits of fire" are torching everything in my heavily wooded biome, I had to terminate DF because my FPS was pretty much history. I sent my squads to fight them, they were taking literal minutes just to exit my walls (and they started outside...).

However, does that mean this may happen again? I fear that this game may be lost if I'm forced to basically retcon every goblin raids.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2021, 05:48:01 am »

Yep, all thanks to some poor dwarves digging too deep, its part of a w.g disaster that can happen now to fortress sites with the token enabled on the entity so have fun!
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2021, 07:11:13 am »

Okay, this is gonna sound very strange, but given the civ that attacks me is only from 2 sites, is genocide a viable option? Aka attack the two sites and pray the demons don't kick my dwarven butt when protected by the power of offscreen combat?
And last question: if I do genocide this civ, and another starts attacking, will it have demons too? If yes my world is basically toast because any and all raids will end in FPSageddon.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2021, 08:20:25 am »

Just because one gobbo civ has demons in their ranks does not mean other gobbo civs do (apart from the overlord, which may or may not still be alive). They may, if they're released by dwarven greed, but they usually do not.
It can also be noted that besieging armies draw their members from the site they originate from, as civs don't know how to muster armies from multiple sites (yet). This means that if a siege comes from the other site it probably won't contain any demons.

Conquest and/or extermination are possible options, but they're usually hard to pull off, as the main site of the civ tend to have large populations (and frequently the demon overlord for gobbos). Given the previous point, it may actually be better for you to attack the main site and leave the secondary one alone in the hope besieging armies will be spawned there (however, eventually you'll probably have depopulated it sufficiently through casualties that it won't be able to send any more sieges, at which time it should be easy to conquer).
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2021, 08:36:41 am »

It seems the agressive goblin civ actually lost its dark fortress to a goblin civil war. Both sites seem relatively low in population, with around 50 sapients each.

Looks like it's high time for an exterminatus...
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Urist mcbayblade

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2021, 01:06:52 pm »

Another thing to note is when sites send out a siege there population of fighting residents is drasticly reduced, Allowing relative ease of conquer.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2021, 01:09:18 pm »

Another thing to note is when sites send out a siege there population of fighting residents is drasticly reduced, Allowing relative ease of conquer.

This is because all the clowns are historical entities, wheras most soldiers sent out by civs aren't so it'll affect local counts. You can severly dock and (in theory) make them send out better troops by obstructing the [CAPTAIN] position token with something they cannot allocate.

It also works for streamlining their non-historical units to be sent out.
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2021, 01:47:25 pm »

Update: So unfortunately, I end up ALWAYS getting a siege in the first few days of the save, and it consistently include SoF. I'm gonna have to manually terminate them using DFhack as they spawn. This is quite silly, since the rest of the of the siege, demons included, is basically "minced meat on legs". Also, a test run showed that it will be damn hard to actually destroy the civ with demons using raids without huge losses, even with an expert squad, thank you, impossible-to-train mil tactics skill...

Any idea on how to train it without losing half of my elite squad?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 01:50:40 pm by towerator »
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FantasticDorf

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2021, 02:52:25 pm »

Any idea on how to train it without losing half of my elite squad?

Hit easy targets such as hostile castles & forts inhabited by bandits with intent to pillage since they infinitely refill even after you may try to raze them a few times given the kinds of shenanigans that occur in legends mode (im applying this as non-anecdotal advice, i usually use small settlements instead), including a lot of sneaking missions where the stealth is vital with a chance of retrieving something valuable but fighting is not. Essentially getting the experience and a bit of free training/loot to all dwarves involved for no penalties.

For real though, the likelyhood is that you will lose your 'General' to a cushy-desk job when they've been sufficiently groomed for the task is a astoundingly high likelyhood regarding that military tactics tends to work on snowball momentum fighting small sites in a prelude to fighting big sites, simply because their manager stat will be so high, they'll end up being selected for forced overseer unless there is another dwarf held in reserve who is more suitable.

Also to note, the militia captain of the first dwarf squad to arrive at the site actually directs the fighting under leadership, and sending supplimentary squads behind them (like a untrained bunch of very noisy soldiers) will quickly escalate a covert raid into a pilllaging mission irregardless of how quiet the first squad was since every other dwarf militia captain that arrives applies their own skills, the rest of the squad doesnt mater so the most prominent members for raiding and considering sending backup should always be the captains (best ambushers, most leadership, best tactics, ideally best desired weapon & social skills).
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Bortness

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2021, 08:51:32 am »

Update: So unfortunately, I end up ALWAYS getting a siege in the first few days of the save, and it consistently include SoF. I'm gonna have to manually terminate them using DFhack as they spawn. This is quite silly, since the rest of the of the siege, demons included, is basically "minced meat on legs". Also, a test run showed that it will be damn hard to actually destroy the civ with demons using raids without huge losses, even with an expert squad, thank you, impossible-to-train mil tactics skill...

Any idea on how to train it without losing half of my elite squad?

Apologies if it's a weird question, but why not just eat the FPS hit until the forest fire burns out?  It may take literally half a day in real time to burn down, but chunk through it, let DF run while you cook or work or something, and then you'll have a great fort story once the FPS returns to whatever you had before.
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2021, 12:19:41 pm »

Update: So unfortunately, I end up ALWAYS getting a siege in the first few days of the save, and it consistently include SoF. I'm gonna have to manually terminate them using DFhack as they spawn. This is quite silly, since the rest of the of the siege, demons included, is basically "minced meat on legs". Also, a test run showed that it will be damn hard to actually destroy the civ with demons using raids without huge losses, even with an expert squad, thank you, impossible-to-train mil tactics skill...

Any idea on how to train it without losing half of my elite squad?

Apologies if it's a weird question, but why not just eat the FPS hit until the forest fire burns out?  It may take literally half a day in real time to burn down, but chunk through it, let DF run while you cook or work or something, and then you'll have a great fort story once the FPS returns to whatever you had before.

The answer is as simple as "I don't really have the patience to". Also, it was still a siege with demons in it, so even if they aren't very strong I'd prefer not to come back only to find out that fun happened during the meantime.

At least I got a cool new engraving for my Hall of History:

http://prntscr.com/wnl2ey

after one of my dorfs led the charge, personally killed a quarter of the siege, then led a second charge against the winged fiends, killed a first, and then saved 2 rookies who were struggling against the 2nd by slicing it up too.

On the "permanent solution" side, I implemented FantasticDorf's solution, my commander is now slowly levelling up. I've done my first test run against a real target, it went well, I think I'm ready to go for the kill.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 12:24:59 pm by towerator »
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Schmaven

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2021, 04:55:03 pm »

Rather than exterminate the SoFs when they arrive, teleporting them to your guard barracks before they start the forest fire seems like it would preserve both the challenge and the FPS.  Then between sieges, just pave the map where sieges come from so nothing there can burn.  They probably come from multiple spots, but in my experience it's usually the same handful of spawn points.  With some walls and raising bridges, you can force sieges along a particular route.
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2021, 06:59:56 pm »

Rather than exterminate the SoFs when they arrive, teleporting them to your guard barracks before they start the forest fire seems like it would preserve both the challenge and the FPS.  Then between sieges, just pave the map where sieges come from so nothing there can burn.  They probably come from multiple spots, but in my experience it's usually the same handful of spawn points.  With some walls and raising bridges, you can force sieges along a particular route.

This seems like a pretty good idea, I'll try thinking about it when the next wave comes.

Meanwhile, since the game really seems to want my FPS dead, it send an actual freaking dragon (the only one left in my world, in fact). Had to remove the first blast as it was outside my walls, but then it entered, totaled the elven caravan (heh), and then actually got itself caged.

Now... I'm unsure what to do with it.
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Schmaven

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2021, 07:03:08 pm »

If put it in a 1x1 room surrounded by fortifications and then raising bridges, it becomes a flame thrower turret to defend your fort.  Raise the bridges when you want to safely harvest the goblinite.
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towerator

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Re: My second goblin siege... includes CLOWNS!?
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2021, 07:21:51 pm »

If put it in a 1x1 room surrounded by fortifications and then raising bridges, it becomes a flame thrower turret to defend your fort.  Raise the bridges when you want to safely harvest the goblinite.

Interesting... I have plans for a better fortress (a LOT of plans actually) let's see if I can add her to them. Dragons can shoot at one level down right? And they cannot destroy constructions? If yes, she will make an excellent addition to the top of the magma wave-motion gun...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2021, 07:25:27 pm by towerator »
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