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Author Topic: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)  (Read 7331 times)

piratejoe

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #75 on: February 11, 2022, 09:48:00 pm »

Wow...This became a complete trashfire.

Alright, so, just going to put this up here and frank. If you think running a game is too hard, just get a co gm/qm/dm/whatevertwoletteranachronymyouwanttouse. Hell, depending on what kind of game it is, and how many people are running it you can have a rotating schedule sort of thing where GM 1 runs for 2 turns, GM 2 for 2 turns after, and then GM3 for 2 turns before it goes back to the first guy, and have the GM's play when they aren't running the game. In a system like that, it is the only time I think a GMPC can work. Though I suppose this is a bit off topic.

If you think running a forum game deserves to be paid, I think it's safe to say you likely won't get much in the way of traction by putting a ticket booth before the ride as it were. Realistically the only time I think it would work and be justifiable is if it's just as donations to the person running it and if it's a very high quality SG. But even then, that's just donations, not direct pay to play. It gives the choice for people who really like the writing if it's high enough quality, like the story of a cheesemaker on this very forum, that they can support the guy running it. Even then running a game is a hobby. Not a job. If it was a job this wouldn't really be up for debate and plenty of people would already be successfully lending out their services for small forum games. The only other thing that might work in what you wrote is essentially having a pay in for a chance to win a cash prize made up of everyone's entre fee but that feels more like gambling than anything else.

I run games because they are fun. Just as a player is wonders what their enemies are doing or what the GM is planning, I love thinking what the players have and love when they express those plans out in their team channel or with me. I like crafting a bunch of strings and seeing which ones the players pull and follow, watching as they become proper intricate paths. It's fine to have general points on a map that eventually will be reached but the route there is something that should always be free and flexible because what's the fun in having players if you just want to write a fanfiction or book instead? When it comes down to it, be it a heavily fluff RPG or a proper crunch filled game, you run it because it's fun, because you want to. Not because you have to. If you really want to be paid for writing or similar, try making a book or make a number of fanfictions and try and get people to pay you to write stories within their parameters. Otherwise, keep it as what it really should be. A fun hobby.



Anyway, I had a sort of idea based on something I saw from another game on a very different forum. It'd have a similar squadron mechanic to KOTS/TWD, but it'd be less a PVE arms race and more squadron and pilot management. I have had the thought in the back of my mind for about two weeks now, and though I've not written anything down I'm curios if anyone thinks that'd be a good idea or not. I'd probably not run it here though, or anytime soon. Especially as I have a fair bit already on my plate. But still, I just want a few thoughts about it.
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ConscriptFive

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #76 on: February 11, 2022, 10:49:24 pm »

If you think running a game is too hard, just get a co gm/qm/dm/whatevertwoletteranachronymyouwanttouse.

Man of Paper

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #77 on: February 11, 2022, 11:12:06 pm »

I've never seen more cooks in the kitchen work out. When you're dealing with something that's "alive", like a game, it's better to have a singular mind to filter things through as you go. Collaboration works best when the goal is a specific end product (like a movie script), not when the product is the journey.
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piratejoe

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2022, 12:57:23 am »

It has worked out before, actually. It was a fucking mess at the start, where I was originally a player and came in to replace one guy who ditched last minute before it started, and one of the other guys dropped after two weeks and fucking things up, but after that rocky start and they were replaced with someone who stuck around things went smooth sailing as far as GM stuff worked out. Really it depends on the game and it's size TBH.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 12:59:06 am by piratejoe »
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RoseHeart

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2022, 02:06:59 am »

I see the conversation was moved here, I'm probably not going to have much to say for awhile as I am busy, but I appreciate it.
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TamerVirus

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2022, 10:45:20 am »

I'll just PTW for now
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RoseHeart

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2022, 01:54:50 pm »

I've heard a lot of talk of "friends" repeated.

I host games on multiple forums sometimes, with groups I've never seen, I'd say those games can be successful. So friendship is not some integral part of hosting and playing forum games in my experience.

The dynamic of "master of the universe" and "participant" is inherantly imbalanced, so more often than not, I'd say forum games are more geared towards fostering friendship among participants. Participants that have become my friends are for meta reasons, like joining games just because I am the host and engaging with me outside of the scope of games. So long as friendship doesn't interfere with our gaming dynamic. Nothing worse than a GM that plays favorites, or a player that expects special treatment!

To me though, I'm not sure I 'believe' in online friends. Not really. A friend would babysit your daughter, or lend you a hand with moving. A friend is actually there for you, and even longtime online friendships are really casual when it comes down to it. But forum games do help you to improve yourself, with challenging stories, or just to fight apathy.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2022, 02:07:21 pm »

At this point, I can only assume you enjoy getting dunked on. There's folks trying to discuss the actual topic of the thread, and you insist on dragging the conversation back to this nonsense.

Mate, just give it a rest. Play forum games, run forum games, have some fun. Don't create drama.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2022, 03:44:16 pm »


Speaking of forum games, I had an idea for something like the above as a forum game.  Forum Wars or something like that.  Each player is a forum, and they are rated by forum statistics.  More statistics, more resources.  The cool part is that the players can interact with each other in interesting ways.
Hmm, I don't think I understand, I guess there's been times I've thought of tying them in small ways. In Pandemic, the person who goes first is the last one to get sick. I've thought of similar things for like most posts or oldest account if it fit the theme.

I see, so not the actual forum statistics, just a game with pretend forum statistics. Sounds fine. I really like the tokens as resources in arms race. The more power you can squeeze into a smaller number the more potent, and I just think that's neat.

But, maybe HUGE numbers can be part of the lulz factor. Forums don't usually interact though, so what would the players do?

(A user can also be a member of multiple forums.)

At this point, I can only assume you enjoy getting dunked on. There's folks trying to discuss the actual topic of the thread, and you insist on dragging the conversation back to this nonsense.

Mate, just give it a rest. Play forum games, run forum games, have some fun. Don't create drama.

hmm

While I agree that it's a stupid discussion that shouldn't be happening, if it has to happen, FGRP is probably the right place.

this was you?

The 'topic at hand' is anything that relates to forum games. There's complete dispassion and detachment from anything even near drama in my post, so if you interpret it as such it's only what you are bringing to it Nuke. I am a little slow to collect my thoughts on things. I'm sure for you, always being so quick to shoot a rebuttal it must seem very slow. With some things I am quick, but others I like to take my time.

Also: I am autistic, and I have a common trait for not really picking up on authority-based subtext(I sit comfortably with kings and paupers alike), and being more focused on collecting and dispersing truth than other considerations. So consider my "dramatic" stuff is really coming from a more mundane, or at worse, playful---place. It's mostly is just me being oblivious to taboos, and not really caring when I find out about them, as they usually are stupid.

More seriously, this is the Forum Games and Roleplaying section of the boards.  If this discussion continues, then this very topic which is actually useful for setting up Forum Games and Roleplaying needs to be in General Discussion, which would be a waste of an otherwise valuable topic.

The thread could possibly be broken into a FG General Discussion and FG Setup Discussion separately. It seems there's only spikes in the former though, but maybe it would be good. I don't know.

Even though I am some dramatic figure or whatever, it seems people don't mind taking advantage of the resources I create like this thread, so maybe I will.



On the topic of improv cohosting, I actually have a recent success/fail story. Mephansteras hosted Bastard Paranormal 3 and I worked with him to provide art for the whole experience. The players were too clever though, and saw through Meph's ruse for them to all be Exterminators(armed serial killers). Meph is a very chill guy, unlike me, so it really was something to watch him go on an improvised RPG-esk adventure with the players. There were clear boundaries in our partnership in terms of what I would do, I set a limit of 15 pictures, and he steered it to meet that goal more or less. It is kinda like a ship in a storm, and anyone closest runs to patch the nearest leak. I created a map since I was already doing art, and he fleshed out the details of the rooms. There was no map originally. The game was a success, so what was the failure? Well we had planned and advertised an epilogue, it ended up being too complex so that was an unfulfilled promise. He was the story teller and I was the artist, but that project would be much more involved for both of us than a normal update. I feel bad about it, but he and the players seem to think well of the experience, and that makes me feel better. I was the one that was pushing hardest to do it though, so that's on me.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2022, 04:14:25 pm »

Also: I am autistic, and I have a common trait for not really picking up on authority-based subtext(I sit comfortably with kings and paupers alike), and being more focused on collecting and dispersing truth than other considerations. So consider my "dramatic" stuff is really coming from a more mundane, or at worse, playful---place. It's mostly is just me being oblivious to taboos, and not really caring when I find out about them, as they usually are stupid.
I'm not going to respond to the rest of the post, but this part annoys me. Do not use autism as an excuse/cudgel. Just don't. Hey, guess what- I've been diagnosed as being on the autistic spectrum myself. I have a bunch of mental-health issues that are related to that. But you wanna know whose problem that is? MINE.
It's fine to be autistic. It's fine to have troubles with things as a result. But for the love of your choice of gods, don't act like being autistic makes those problems not be problems. I'm allowed to be annoyed by you if you are annoying.
You being autistic is perhaps an explanation for your actions, but it is not an excuse. It doesn't make them acceptable. You should be trying to mitigate the effects, not relishing them.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2022, 04:18:53 pm »

What do I have to excuse, pick one thing. We can talk about it in PM or wherever, since you want to explore a thread like that.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2022, 04:28:59 pm »

What do I have to excuse, pick one thing.
Waiting six days to triple post, just to bring up a topic that you know- that you say yourself in the actual post- will cause drama.
Quote
We can talk about it in PM or wherever, since you want to explore a thread like that.
I really don't. I'm really trying to avoid this thread entirely. I wasn't going to reply at all- your posts are self-evidently wrong, I don't need to point out the mistakes. But you using autism as an excuse pissed me off. Having now said my piece regarding the subject, and having responded to this question directed specifically at me to elaborate on a prior post, I will again try to avoid getting drawn into your drama.
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Man of Paper

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2022, 04:36:37 pm »

I like the part where people moved on but roseheart didn’t and then said we should move on, and people did, but he didn’t multiple times.

Hi dead Alex, I’ll take “I actually want to start drama and I have a need to play the victim” for 500.

And finally let me just say that nuke tends to be my voice of reason. If he’s tired of your shit that tells me you’re full of said shit. Protip roseheart: you’ve done exactly nothing these past few days except successfully build more animosity toward yourself. As someone who is also a state-certified autist might I suggest a course of action I’ve taken when I realize I’m being a dickhead?

Log off. A couple days, maybe a week, perhaps a month. Just don’t keep circling the drain around here, bro. You’ve been nothing but argumentative and petty, and if your brand of autism somehow prevents you from seeing it then you need to take some time to reflect on why people are calling you out for being a shitter instead of going “nah I’m just autistic”.
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RoseHeart

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Re: Game Design Discussion and Review (Also Ideas Dump)
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2022, 05:23:01 pm »

I read your Cthuluian SG Nuke, I never looked down on you. And paper, I'm using systems you created in one of my current games, I respect you guys as game designers, even though you make it so clear, even without the talk of monetization or donations, you think I am a trash forum game host. And you know what? I am, but I am better than I was last year, and the year before that. And I bet you wern't born at your current level. Which makes it really surprising you then turn around and constantly peg my hosting abilities every time you can, I'm surprised it didn't happen here.

Nuke, I don't think for a second you feel I meant my autistic confession that way. I think you don't misinterpret my words so liberally for any other reason that to frame my words as you see fit in the court of public opinion, because you don't see me as fit. For what, I don't know. I'm not trying to be a mod, I just try to make some helpful forum game resources now and then, and share opinions about forum games, which I have strong ones on. You have no reason to feel soo daamn threated by me, that you and Paper gotta tag-team me to try to make one point.

I'm shocked that I'm saying this but I think you guys are being a little too hard on roseheart.

Maybe I will take a break.



Hey, petty builshit snipe edit, since I'm gunna be gone for awhile anyway.


Quote from: Nuke
But you using autism as an excuse pissed me off.

Quote from: Paper
And finally let me just say that nuke tends to be my voice of reason. If he's tired of your shit that tells me you're full of said shit.


It does seem relevant, when the majority of your posts are about "Hey guys, look how socially awkward THAT guy is!"


That's like, your script. You are 1 note.


Meanwhile, with Nuke it's "look at this mundane thing THAT guy said! Watch me convince you it is PROOF he is a DEMON!!"


1 note. But at least you both form a 2 part harmony.


Quote from: Paper
And finally let me just say that nuke tends to be my voice of reason.

Explains a lot.



New Thread(General):http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179550.0
New Thread(Game Design):http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=179549.0
« Last Edit: February 12, 2022, 10:20:14 pm by roseheart »
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