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Author Topic: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05  (Read 28318 times)

QuQuasar

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #120 on: May 06, 2021, 06:02:52 pm »

Daral the Soapy Fruit is my favorite god purely for the name. It also occurs to me that "Soapy Fruit" could be a reference to olives, which we do have on the map... [hint hint]...

Quote
I vote we retcon the river god's religion into a great, honorable, fish-worshiping cult.

Notably, our group name is "The Cult of Fishing", so you may all be onto something there, Salmeuk...



Trading our fish is an excellent idea: we're simply not going to be able to eat everything we catch. Beardfishing is surprisingly productive when extinction isn't an issue: the wiki recommends two fish cleaners for every fisherdwarf just to keep up. It's also one of the only industries we have access to without leaving the pier. And for roleplay purposes, exporting fish and seafood to the mountainhomes just makes sense.

As for those shell crafts, I realized the command we ran to repopulate the fish didn't apply to our shell-having critters, so here...

Code: [Select]
region-pops incr-all NAUTILUS 50000
That should put the raw materials back in the ocean, at least.

Imic

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #121 on: May 07, 2021, 09:01:45 am »

Perhaps we could set up an industry to mass produce prepared meals from all the fish and then export all of it?
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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #122 on: May 08, 2021, 01:17:07 pm »

Granite 5th A vile force of darkness has arrived, directly from the south. The outer gate was closed in time, so the only thing we lost is the trade with the elves. Oh well.
Spoiler: the whole siege. (click to show/hide)

The invaders are loitering outside; they get dangerously close a few times, but the fortifications seem to do their job in holding them away from dwarves.


They’re briefly stopping on top of our ‘grave’ complex, and I suddenly realize that if the goblins had also brought trolls, we’d be swamped in ghosts:


Back to building. We have significant amounts of gabbro, so they’ll be used for all the floors. The central walkway is getting a twin below itself, in the farming and fishing area. The new and enlarged farm is next on the list, and the two separate rooms for animals will join it: one will be muddied, for grazers, and the other will hold the egg-layers, and a bunch of nestboxes.

The mayor’s quarters are being built to the north-east, just across the walk-way from the citizen's rooms. I’m planning them big since they can’t be engraved; value has to come from furniture and size. Above, on the same footprint, two sets of smaller rooms will hold the captain of the guard, and the dungeon master. If we ever get a baron, either we’ll build a third set of rooms above, or we can fire the dungeon master and move the mayor in that suite.

19th Granite. At some point during the last two weeks, alcohol production has ceased - we ran out of containers. I locate a craftsdwarf workshop on the surface, and order it to make as many jet pots as it can manage. Then I order two exposed jet clusters dug out. Come to think of it, some more exploratory tunnels wouldn’t go amiss…


11th Felsite. Our new farm is being flooded, in complete safety. A grate in the input tile and a fortification on the other side of the room guarantee that neither items nor people can be flushed at sea. The room across from it is for egg layers; it was nearly muddied for grazers (for the sake of symmetry), but this room is right below the large central room, thus having a sealed roof. The thing with egg-layers is that they usually fly, and if their room isn’t covered they will randomly leave.


14th Felsite. A metalsmith has a fey mood, claims the forge on the surface and creates an iron sword.


« Last Edit: May 08, 2021, 01:31:32 pm by StrikaAmaru »
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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #123 on: May 10, 2021, 04:01:33 pm »

Summer.
9th of Hematite. The human caravan has arrived, far sooner than usual despite our relative isolation.

They did not bring any sort of trade diplomat, outpost liaison, or guild representative; this means we can’t order anything for next year. As for this year, we cannot yet trade them fish; the stockpiles have been mixed, so prepared and unprepared fish was stored in the same barrels. I’ll sort them out after trade completes, but until then we’ll have to see what we can find in our bins.

The bins too are mixed; chains, baubles, and random worn clothing were all tossed in the first available bin. After selecting the worn clothes and a handful of human-sized clothes, I’ve managed to scrounge some 7,000☼. In exchange, I chose all their bars, all their barrels, all their thread, and the three bins of spider silk that they carry. They have no leather and no cloth, or I’d have grabbed those too. The trade was still far too profitable for the humans, so I’ve chosen a few of their cheaper books to make up the difference; hopefully, they’ll survive the environment.

For the rest of the season, the work is split between sorting foodstuffs, and constructing new areas. The lower level has the least to show - two rooms are constructed for guilds and poultry, but the nest boxes weren’t built, the peahens have not been moved, and the guilds have not yet been requested:


On the level above, four changes were made:

The large central room has had its walls knocked out, and expanded to the edge. The resulting 23x19 room was then sectioned off in six workshop pods, a storage area from which workshops can be fed, and three temple rooms (so far unassigned). Currently-built workshops are for leather, mechanic’s, gemcutter, and three cloth makers - the last three are all being used to make clothes from the cotton we’ve amassed.


On the north-east, the mayor’s rooms stretch over the sea. A chert-floored room will house our few beehives, and whatever else we may need to just put far away.


Lastly, a hospital with five isolated beds is half-built to the south.


Among the older constructions, the tavern floor was used to store prepared food and alcohol. This almost completely cleared the old foodstuffs room, for now at least, since it only keeps plants and fat. And fat won’t stay there for long.


One level above that, very little was done this summer, besides plans. The central area is set to resemble the one below, cooking should happen above the tavern, and the rooms for the captain of the guard should get their roof at some point in the future.

Oh yeah. We briefly run out of gabbro, and use some mica.
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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #124 on: May 10, 2021, 04:04:47 pm »

Autumn.
15th of Limestone. The home caravan has arrived; for next year, I ordered leather, cloth, yarn, silk, drinks, a few cats and sheep, and a bit of wood. The premiums for next year’s caravan will be crippling, but we are… swimming in fish. Heh.

Unfortunately, fish is not terribly priced by the mountain home. Oh, it is prized, they do want it, they just don’t want to pay any decent sum for it. So I’m getting contrarian myself, and will give them just about anything except fish. For the future, I’d recommend we cook the entire supply in lavish meals. That should force the cheapskates to fork over some proper cash.


So, the current trade goods are prepared meals, and whatever I can find. In exchange for about 16,000☼ (a quarter of which were crafts and discarded clothing) we get bars, wood, thread, a few clothes and armor, some decently-priced leather, and some absurdly-overpriced leather. The latter will get converted into shoes, caps and a few pairs of pants.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2021, 04:10:49 pm by StrikaAmaru »
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Salmeuk

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #125 on: May 10, 2021, 08:24:57 pm »

Wow, so what I assume to be full barrels of *Fish* are only worth as much as a single, polished Rubicelle? What trash is that lol.

Nice call on expanding the central room. I had intended some windows to go in.. but it's better this way. The more compact we can build, the better. And with all this extra space you're creating we might get some real industry set up.

I like the image of our tavern so full-up of booze barrels that you can't even see the floor. Imagine the dwarves, hopping from barrel to barrel-top, or those who are too drunk to care might just barrel on through the mess.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Good fun. I echo the sentiment we might want to switch over to glass-based construction, at some future point, since it is sadly true that the more objects we create and process, the slower the game will run. And since we are building large constructions it's important to consider these things.

Any word on the military side of things? I ... neglected to even identify potential warriors during my run.

Here's to making our name via mass export of <<Tuna Roast>>!!
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QuQuasar

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #126 on: May 10, 2021, 10:08:38 pm »

Any word on the military side of things? I ... neglected to even identify potential warriors during my run.

I suppose as an alternative to having a functioning military we could build a drowning trap. Build the floor out of retracting bridges so any goblin in the maze gets punted into the water.

For the rest of the season, the work is split between sorting foodstuffs, and constructing new areas. The lower level has the least to show - two rooms are constructed for guilds and poultry, but the nest boxes weren’t built, the peahens have not been moved, and the guilds have not yet been requested:

I like all the new space. I'm going to miss the barge, but I suppose technically now everything is barge.

Oh yeah. We briefly run out of gabbro, and use some mica.
QuQuasar cancels read post: Experiencing emotional shock!

Betrayal of the century.

Staalo

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #127 on: May 11, 2021, 01:02:02 am »

Looking great! It's nice to see our little fishing village growing into a decent-sized building complex.

I think that mysterious central room was originally the extension I built for workshops; looks like someone emptied it after me. Now it's again serving its original purpose.

Has the Swimatorium been used yet on citizens? How are their swimming skills?
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 03:25:58 am by Staalo »
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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #128 on: May 13, 2021, 02:10:38 am »

The military and the Swimatorium are both completely ignored :( Ditto for moving the metal industry above the water where it belongs. Anything else is spoilers :D

The save for year 207 is here. It includes both raw files, so the next player can just remove the suffix from the raw file they want to play.


I'll post autumn and winter in a single go, after I get a bunch more pictures.
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BluarianKnight

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #129 on: May 13, 2021, 09:08:51 am »

I'll jump onto the file shortly.
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BluarianKnight

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #130 on: May 13, 2021, 07:08:42 pm »

I've begun looking over things.

Armok help dear Fishheads.
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QuQuasar

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #131 on: May 13, 2021, 07:28:11 pm »

I've begun looking over things.

Armok help dear Fishheads.
Oh no.

I'm sorely tempted to load up the save and take a look for myself, but I think I'll wait for StrikaAmaru to finish her writeup of Autumn and Winter. I want to experience it.

BluarianKnight

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #132 on: May 13, 2021, 09:07:18 pm »

I've begun looking over things.

Armok help dear Fishheads.
Oh no.

I'm sorely tempted to load up the save and take a look for myself, but I think I'll wait for StrikaAmaru to finish her writeup of Autumn and Winter. I want to experience it.

you sorely misunderstand.

It is not what I found -

It is what will be left.

I've got a few plans - and to finish them will take risks.
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StrikaAmaru

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #133 on: May 14, 2021, 05:20:11 am »

(this repeats the small bit of autumn that I posted above; in retrospect, I shouldn’t have published it at all. I blame it being nearly 12PM at the time).

Autumn.

15th of Limestone. The home caravan has arrived; for next year, I ordered leather, cloth, yarn, silk, drinks, a few cats and sheep, and a bit of wood. The premiums for next year’s caravan will be crippling, but we are… swimming in fish. Heh.

Unfortunately, fish is not terribly priced by the mountain home. Oh, it is prized, they do want it, they just don’t want to pay any decent sum for it. So I’m getting contrarian myself, and will give them just about anything except fish.


For the future, I’d recommend we cook the entire supply in lavish meals. That should force the cheapskates to fork over some proper cash.


So, the current trade goods are prepared meals, and whatever I can find. In exchange for about 16,000☼ (a quarter of which were crafts and discarded clothing) we get bars, wood, thread, a few clothes and armor, some decently-priced leather, and some absurdly-overpriced leather. The latter will get converted into shoes, caps and a few pairs of pants.

Once that’s out of the way, we go back to construction, and we slaughter a few of our animals. The third level gets some upgrades.


At the end of autumn, a web-spewing Forgotten Beast has found FishHeads. The caverns are no longer safe, but thankfully, they’re also well isolated from the rest of excavations; we are, for the moment, safe.


Winter

5th Moonstone. The goblins have arrived from the west, with a spectacular siege, filled with all manner of interesting beasts - all of them war-trained of course:


The more reasonable species on display are jaguars, lynxes, giant toads, and giant saltwater crocodiles. The least usual ones are giant mandrills, giant walruses, giant anacondas, and... gigantic pandas? What are they going to do, eat bamboo menacingly?

These are the weirdest goblins I have seen so far. Did they get infested by some elven disease, by any chance?

Still, let’s not pretend they’re completely without teeth: they have a war roc. It’s currently sitting on the map edge as its master wishes, but I won’t expect this to last forever. The military is stationed by the animal pen; I’m gambling the goblin will go for the nearest targets.


Spoiler: Full siege: (click to show/hide)

11th Opal. The siege has… ended? There was no reason for this -- none of the invaders have died. They just... up and left, way ahead of schedule.

My term is approaching its end. Looking back, for a fisher I’ve done a lot of building; maybe I should look at that architecture thing.



The farming area is mostly unchanged since spring; the farm’s been producing large amounts of cotton, and a bit of brewing plants. Egg-layers were finally moved in their pod, even if they only have one nest box. The same place is also occupied by the soap industry, such as it is. I doubt any ash was ever made, but we now have an ashery, a soap workshop, and a dedicated kitchen that will only render tallow into fat.

Our guild, and by ‘our’ I mean fisher’s, is occupying half the southern room; the other half was given to our cousins in the fish cleaning business. Our guild rooms share a pedestal which displays the legendary kimberlite crown, DippedOrder, and they’re both classed as grand guildhalls with a total value of around 23,000☼


Animals in general have been culled according to species and abilities. Yaks were all butchered; in this climate, keeping them is tantamount to torture. From the others, the feeble beasts were marked for the knife, while the sturdier ones were left to breed.




One level above, cloth processing was assigned to the least happy members of our fort. The hope is that they’ll feel better after improving weaving and tailoring, and they’ll have first dibs on new clothes as well. Speaking of, most of the leather bins visible are actually empty (and leather clothes have been suspended), but lacking either a dedicated stockpile or a need for them, the bins themselves were left in place. Some rooms received coffers in which to place their clothes; I believe a few more were carved out, but not built. Should maybe dig out some microcline for furniture, not like it’s good for anything else.

The mayor’s rooms are fully kitted out, which should nicely compensate for me ignoring all his mandates. Somewhat related, 3 ropes were built on the tavern floor and assigned to justice; the so-called lawbreakers are mostly bearing the burden of nobiliary stupidity, so I see no reason to cause them harm. Said tavern also had most of the prepared meals hauled out of it, and in a dedicated space by the trade depot; we’ll be cooking a new batch of them anyway.

North of the mayor’s quarters there’s a large area for hives. The actual hives themselves were already carved from diorite, but not built. The most I know about bee-keeping is that it’s finicky, and that the mead resulting from it is considered subpar compared to wines and brews. Still, I made them a press to process honey combs, and… they need jugs too, don’t they? Dunno, I’ll leave it to someone else.

Lastly, the hospital has been completed and assigned 5 beds. It has no nearby water, but then again how many dwarves even required hospitalization lately? Oh, and I used a trick I overheard once in a bar: the hospital was not assigned any thread, but a small dumping area was made and used as a target for all spun hair in our fort. Doctors tend to pick the closest, so this is the best way to give use to some of the least useful materials around.



Above that, the trade depot was the focus of some expansion. Well, not the depot proper, not much you can do to a standardized building, but a stockpile of prepared meals was constructed by it. … I mentioned it before, haven’t I? The booze is getting to me; about time! Anyway, while the intended trade export is planned to be prepared meals, we’re also keeping a few other knick-knacks close by: crafts, old clothes, and armor and clothes we can’t use -- so troll crap, basically. They got small stockpiles by the entry.

Right on top of the tavern, the main kitchen is built. It’s fed by 5 separate stockpiles, with two main stockpiles for meat and cheese, and fish set aside. The other three keep selected foodstuffs like royal jelly, extracts, leaves, eggs, and milled plants.

Speaking of: we now have more processed fish and meat than we can store. My advice to the next overseer is to suspend fish cleaning jobs, and let the cook work the kitchen to reduce the raw materials a bit. We have extended stockpiles for prepared meals for this very reason.

Butchery and tanning are both done above, out of sight of animals, and nicely aired. Three butcheries should be enough for most purposes, I think.


Oh yeah. There are six rooms prepared for guilds, four even get their own artifact, and none have been assigned. One should definitely be handed to craftsdwarves, there are 20-something in that guild.

--------------------------------
Welp, here we are. My grand plan to fish, fish, fish and get other materials only through trade got bogged down by the simple fact the fish isn’t worth all that much. Prepared meals are far better, and they also give me a justification to buy barrels -- we’re going to always sell them, and can’t rely on always having access to wood. And also, we can’t be arsed.

More stuff that differs from the play-through:

1. I never appointed a dungeon master; the rooms exist, but are unfurnished and iirc the position doesn't exist in the nobles' screen. And nothing of importance has been lost...

2. I never made a muddied room for grazers because I did make one in the abandoned play-through, and nothing spawned in it -- no grass, no vegetation, nothing. I know from experience that any muddied surface gets these in mere days, so if they didn't spawn in the month and a half that had passed, they weren't going to spawn, period (and it's not like Minecraft, where vegetation spread needs a contiguous path to a spot with grass or mycelium)

There should be at least one nest box built somewhere -- we have the eggs to prove it. But I couldn’t find it.

Jet pots are one of my favorite things in DF; they’re even lighter than willow barrels, and on that note willow has long since stopped being the lightest wood in DF. The wood stockpile in level +3 is set to accept only the least dense wood types -- so: feather, papaya, kapok, custard apple, and willow.

I made an underground farm, but it’s only been used for pig tails. And to get the six underground seeds out of the way.

For the military, best get a magma smithy done first, and train two good dwarves as weaponsmith and armorer; some 60 fully trained, armed, and armored dwarves can turn a siege like that winter one into mince meat. And then we can turn their war beast into actual meat cuts; take my playthrough of Sil Kodor as an example: by the time the fort of HopeWork matured, it was mostly fed by beak dog roasts. K, shameless plug ended.


About the bee-keeping stuff: Sarvesh/Amara may not know how to handle it, but I do. The problem is that bee-keeping really is a lot of work for very little profit, and the work gets filled with frustrations - royal jelly keeps clogging the food stockpiles unless excluded, dwarves will stupidly store jugs of royal jelly in the same place as empty jugs, honeycombs get stored in bins while pressed wax goes in barrels, and other small weird details. And on top of that, mead really is worth 1 dorfbuck, while most plant and fruit brews are 2 per unit.

Still, if you want to establish the industry, get the hives built (b - alt+h). I’ve made some; actually I made a lot ‘cause I left the task on repeat. And they’re made of jet, too; I wanted them out of diorite, what even happened there?

Anyway: for a proper bee industry, you’re going to need:
- an un-roofed area where to place at most 40 hives. Check.
- a press to process honeycombs to honey and wax. Check.
- a dedicated stockpile for royal jelly, very close to the kitchen where you make prepared meals; you want the jugs emptied asap, and if they're placed in barrels in food stockpiles they'll stay there for eternity. Check. (create as Food > remove all > go to Extracts & choose only ‘honey bee royal jelly’ and ‘bumble bee royal jelly’; ban barrels, you don’t need them).

More optional, but still pretty useful things to have:
- a dedicated stockpile for empty jugs, which must be set to Give to the food ‘pile mentioned above. Because, as previously said, bee-keeping is kind of a red-headed step-child in DF and dwarves will store full jugs in this stockpile, but not the other way around; so this ensures any full jugs get moved to the kitchen. Create as ‘Finished Goods’, ban all ‘Types’ except ‘Tools’ and all materials except stone. No bins allowed, let any extra jugs where they are.
- a dedicated stockpile for honeycombs. Create as Finished Goods stockpile, then ban all ‘Types’ except ‘Tools’ and all materials except ‘Wax’. Allow as many or as few bins as you wish.
- a dedicated stockpile for pressed wax cakes. Create as a ‘Food’ stockpile, then ban everything except ‘Pressed Material’ > ‘honey bee wax cake’. Bumble bee wax isn’t a thing.

One thing I didn’t know how to do was to establish a ‘proper’ smithy, one powered by magma not charcoal (and over the water, of course!) I still have no idea how to haul magma minecarts from the bottom of the world to where I want it to be, and I’ve been looking, too. I know it’s been done in SmallHands with great success, but not how.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 06:18:00 am by StrikaAmaru »
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QuQuasar

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Re: Fishheads - A Succession Fishing Village - 47.05
« Reply #134 on: May 14, 2021, 06:34:53 am »

Still, let’s not pretend they’re completely without teeth: they have a war roc. It’s currently sitting on the map edge as its master wishes, but I won’t expect this to last forever.
Oh. Oh sweet Armok. They're going to use the war animals? They are actually going to use the war animals.

We are fucked. Oh my god we are so fucked. I didn't think they'd actually use them. Oh fuck.

See, here's the thing: I saw their menagerie when I was snooping around in legends mode. Thought it was weird, but figured it was just a background element. Like how they goblins usually have tons of voracious cave crawlers and cave dragons, but you very rarely see them in-game. I figured maybe it was normal to have hundreds of tame Rocs in a world with maximum savagery. Our elves are the same. Loads and loads of giant animals everywhere. Purely because it's a highly savage world, I assumed.

I was wrong. Something has clearly gone horribly, amazingly, wonderfully wrong in worldgen. I swear this is a vanilla world apart from the Fishing Extended mod, but we are not talking here about one or two roc's that the Witch of Anger happen to have tamed here and there. This is more of a, uh... a "fight in the shade" type of situation.

tl;dr: They have nine hundred and fifty one rocs. And roc's? Roc's aren't even the worst of it. They have worse.

We're gonna die.



One thing I didn’t know how to do was to establish a ‘proper’ smithy, one powered by magma not charcoal (and over the water, of course!) I still have no idea how to haul magma minecarts from the bottom of the world to where I want it to be, and I’ve been looking, too. I know it’s been done in SmallHands with great success, but not how.

Oh, I know the answer to that one. It's actually surprisingly easy: no need for large filling chambers or anything. Two pumps and a track stop will do it.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Magma#Design_3:_Minimalist_magma_moving

  • Dump a stack of minecarts onto a single tile.
  • Pump magma onto that tile.
  • Pump magma off of that tile.
  • Build track stops set to dump north one tile south of where you want the magma to go.
  • Define a hauling route with a stop on top of the trackstop.
  • Assign one of the magma carts to the hauling route.

We're still gonna die though.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 06:36:41 am by QuQuasar »
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