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[femmelf]

I just had some questions about buying a car, probably a used/possibly a certified preowned one. I took care of my car forever, but yeah.... Basically my car is dying. It's almost 20 years old, so I'm not exactly surprised. Fixing it costs ... frankly too much to be worth it. Wondering if I could get some constructive opinions/expertise on some of the following please.

I.) Odd family stuff concerning this: For years, my dad talked about nothing but cars. Couldn't get him to shut up about them. Now, he's saying general things only. Oddly, mom is talking to me about interest rates etc, and referring me new cars ... I can't afford a "new" car, and she should know it. Thinking used/certified preowned. I am basically not getting a new car, but rather another car, that's only 3-6 years old. Dad is older, etc. Now claims to be "busy," but he's retired, so that's an odd timing.... He should not be "busy," for this.... He does not have a job anymore, etc. He said he'd help me (not financially but that's ok ish and I knew this) buy a car, because he knows a lot about them. He used to repair/sell them. Not sure what's up with these two.

II.) I am looking for a small SUV. Shopping around for one, etc.

III.) What brands are good?
A.) I've had great experiences with a Mitsubishi, but for whatever reason, the dealerships that sell those around me are closing. I'd have to go 2 hours away to get it serviced.
Sadly that's looking like less of an option.

B.) My dad said he wouldn't hit a dead dog with a Ford.... He won't explain his comment, but I'm guessing they aren't great. He said similar things about GM.... So basically not this.

C.) Kia: I'm being nudged in this direction. About 10 years ago or more, they were ... less than great. Now I'm hearing they are much better.
I guess I wouldn't mind one of their SUVs in theory, like a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Sorento Sorento, or something. (I know I butchered that hyperlink and I'm sorry).

Are these cars generally better than they were. Would you buy one?

D.) Hyundai. I know nothing about these, only that my mom told me they would not stand behind a warranty for someone, and that I "shouldn't buy one." 

E.) Something else?

F.) What cars would you absolutely AVOID? Just as important as what to buy is what NOT to buy. Thoughts?

IV.) I'm looking at various car dealer websites for things.

A.) I know it's a stereotype, but car dealers have a reputation of ripping people off, especially girls. Now does this appear to be a new digital version of this? Anything I should watch out for?

B.) Same idea with technical matters on cars.
I know to look at certain things like mileage, but I'm sure there are things I am missing. Thoughts?

I know there are probably some car people around here, who wouldn't mind sharing their thoughts on what type of car they would buy today. I would appreciate any constructive thoughts on the matter. I am grateful for your time. Just trying to figure things out. Thank you.

[nenjin]

Generally, in my experience.....

Foreign made cars generally cost a little more, and service costs a little more but you get better overall quality and longevity. Domestically made (American brands) tend to be cheaper here, and their parts are generally cheaper, but lower quality and more prone to breaking. This has become less true as the owners of American brands have diversified, Japanese and European auto manufacturers have built plants here in the US.....but I generally still think my take holds true today.

Everyone has their own "would never buy that" American brands. My dad like to joke about Ford that it stands for "Driver Returns On Fire." Fords are ubiquitous, and affordable but things shit out on them all the time from what I understand.

I've never owned an SUV so I can't comment on brand choices. Except to say that yes, I think Kia is a much better product than when it started. It started suuppppppeeeerrr cheap and janky and I think they've upped their game. You could easily research this.

Dunno what to say about your dad. Fathers are supposed to love protecting their kids, and daughters in particular, from predatory auto purchases. And he's a big car guy? Kinda curious.

As for how they might try to take advantage of you as a girl.....the truth is, they will take advantage of everybody if they can. Women have a reputation for not being good in high pressure sales situations. Whether that's true or not, buying a new car can be pretty tense. It comes down to how well informed you are, what you can see plainly in front of you, what they will prove and whether or not you're willing to walk away.

In the digital age, dealerships have to be a little more careful. If they post a price online and when you get there to look at it it's different, word of stuff like that gets around. People don't want to have their time wasted, and dealeships want to make a sale. They're even willing to "take a hit" in order to make that sale. When in truth, that "hit" is eating into a margin they've already well padded out for themselves. What really makes them the money these days is financing. Selling the car, moving the unit, they'll probably get a commission of some kind on that. But if they get you to finance through them, now you owe them for a while and I imagine those "accounts" are what most salesmen are truly after.

But to back up a step, here's what you should do to establish facts:

-Note the price, mileage, condition, photos, and all details that they publicly advertise.
-Compare what the same kinda car in the same kinda condition with the same mileage of the same year generally goes for elsewhere. Is their price way off that? If it's way high or way low, either there's reason to be suspicious or it's overpriced and just not a good buy.
-Compare these things to what the car actually is at the lot. Is it suspiciously higher? Mileage not stated correctly? Condition a little too generous? Not the actual, exact car they were advertising  (this happens FAR more than you'd believe.) If any of these are true, you should start being suspicious.
-Ask them for a vehicle history report. You shouldn't have to pay that. If they want you to buy this car, make them provide it. Carfax or w/e service is good these days. You'll learn if this thing has been in an accident, stolen, salvaged, etc....these things should all effect the price if true.
-If it's got more than 60,000 miles on it, ask if the timing belt has been replaced. If no, then you gotta factor that into the cost of the vehicle because it's coming.
-Ask how long the vehicle has been on the lot. They may well lie, but if it's been there for a year, you know no one is looking at it and that means you can negotiate from a better position. You want to buy this thing  they've had a hard time getting rid of.

And then there's just the tactics you gotta be aware of used by salesmen:
-Offering confusing package plans that seem like a good deal but are additive rather than necessary. If they want you to pay anything more than the agreed on price and the taxes, ask why and if you don't like the answer, walk away. "Transportation fees", "clean up fees", "warranty fees", "title and licensing fees" any fee they tack on to the sale price should be questioned and by and large rejected. Some businesses just operate like that and may stick to their guns. But when the charges are bullshit, you'd be amazed how many of them disappear when it means it might cost them the sale.
-Being vague on details. Most things they don't tell you or highlight don't improve the odds you'll buy it. They don't mention those things for a reason. See: accidents, theft, etc...
-Leveraging Fear Of Missing Out to pressure you to make a decision sooner. Either they're getting paid or you're using up their time. ("I've had quite a few people look at this in the last week, it's a nice car.") Could be true, could be bullshit, but it's attempting to pressure you into buying either way.
-Promising they'll take care of anything wrong after you buy the car. If there's something that needs taken care of, should it not already be taken care of when they offer to sell it? Anything they say they'll handle after the sale happens on their dime, on their time. So it either won't get done, take forever to get done, be cheap and/or temporary, and/or have the cost passed on to you. I suppose another option is that it's just done well and good. But I wouldn't bank on it.

And here's just some attitudes I think are helpful when going into spend a lot of money all at once:

-It's your money. Act like that really matters.
-Do your research until you actually feel confident, then act.
-Ask. Questions. Questions formed from your research. If you didn't ask it, they often can't be blamed for not telling it to you.
-Fight for your money. You are the marketplace, these people want YOUR business. Act like your business is important (because it is, to you AND them) and demand it be treated with honesty and respect.
-Appreciate that a "small" car problem today can become a big problem as early as the day after you buy it. Squeaking, rubbing, grinding, humming, wobbling and all manner of jank only gets WORSE. If you notice during a test drive, it's a problem you're agreeing to purchase. Don't buy something with obvious problems, which seems obvious but people often willingly to overlook because they're feeling pressured or they've already convinced themselves to buy it.
-Negotiate. Really you can only negotiate these days when you can make a decent argument why the price they're charging doesn't work for you. Things they didn't do that end up costing you after you buy it as a reason why they should sell it to you for less. That's what all the research and questions are about, is finding those details you can leverage to negotiate the price down if it's warranted. "Oh you haven't replaced the timing belt? That can be anywhere from $500 to $1000 to replace. So let's take that off the price tag." Negotiation isn't for the timid and it doesn't always work. People are somewhat less willing to horse trade than they used to be, but many still will. You just can't be irrational about it. You can't ask for $2000 off a $7000 car and not have a pretty good reason why you think that's "fair."
-Be ready to walk away. That's the most powerful negotiating chip you have. You always have options, you don't have to be married to the first decent car you find that's too expensive, has too much jank or you don't like the terms of.

I'll give you two experiences from buying my last certified pre-owned Toyota.

1. It was almost perfect, except the change container near the steering wheel. The latch was broken and it just flopped around. When I asked them to fix it as part of me buying it, the guy actually did a little eye roll at me. It took them over 3 weeks to get the part that they handed to me. For having a pretty much rock solid low mileage vehicle, the fact they overlooked that and thought I was making a "deal" out of it just never quite sat right with me.

2. While I was sitting at the desk in the dealership negotiating, the guy I was talking to had to get up a minute and go, I think, confer with someone. Anyways, his boss is walking the floor where the other salesmen are sitting. He turns to another salesmen adjacent to where I am, and says loud enough to be heard across the enormous show room floor "Haven't seen any sales from you in quite a while Bill." Then strolls away. The look on Bill's face was one of real hatred. That's why I shit on salesmen so much. Their jobs suck, their bosses suck, they're under pressure to sell sell sell and that can lead to a lot of stuff that eventually comes at your expense. So I advocate for being aggressive with them as per a lot of what I said above. If they want my business they have to work for it AND not be dirt bags.

[Jimmy]

I also wholeheartedly recommend doing your own independent research for a large vehicle purchase.

By research, I don't mean reading car magazines or manufacturer sponsored websites. These are all pretty much advertising being presented as fact. Instead, I recommend using a trusted consumer research organization that publishes independent reviews of products which isn't tied to any manufacturers.

When I purchased my last vehicles, I bought second hand and paid cash. I also bought privately through the internet. Both vehicles I purchased have been my primary means of transport for myself and my wife for the last decade, and with regular servicing and maintenance, there's only been a very small assortment of expensive issues, barring the occasional fender bender which is offset by insurance. I bought five year old Hondas, and never once regretted the purchase.

The reason I did this was based on a combination of reliability and gas efficiency published on the Australian review site Choice. I spent a few weeks doing in-depth research for my particular needs, being that of a young family with two working parents. The decision for a pair of reliable, cheap sedans for city and town use fit my needs. If instead I needed a work van, ute, or something that could handle rural terrain, I'd have chosen differently.

My personal opinion is that a car is a tool, not a lifestyle choice. It needs to serve your needs both now and for the next few years or decades. It needs to reliably transport you and whatever else you'll need to carry from Point A to Point B. Small cars are generally cheaper to run, but if you've got kids you'll likely need something bigger than a two door hatchback. Big cars give you lots of pulling power for stuff like trailers and getting over rough terrain, but that's wasted gas if you're just driving through city traffic. If you work a trade, you'll want a truck for work, but they're not useful if you have an office job and are a pain to park.

Basically, define what role you need your car to serve, then research the best options for that role.

[anewaname]

Keep the salesperson in a state of uncertainty and without specific knowledge. This will help with some of the issues Nenjin went over; because salespeople with specific information will attempt to redirect your attention or to engage your emotions.

Try to find a hill near the dealership before you go in. If you do find a vehicle of interest, take it to that hill and find out how the engine accelerates and how the transmission shifts. when starting from a stop at the bottom. Push the vehicle like you would when speeding up to merge onto the highway. If the vehicle cannot reach a good velocity, struggles, or shifts funny, don't buy it. It will never handle cargo well and it will not get better (the dealer already fixed the easy stuff). If you found a very steep hill or a "not really a hill", factor that into the consideration.

[gimlet]

You also need to consider your use-case - ie do you drive a lot daily?   How many people do you need to accomodate?   How often do you haul stuff and how much?

If you don't put on many miles, you don't need to look for extreme good-mileage cars.   You could save a lot upfront getting a "gas guzzler" - how many extra gallons of gas could you buy if you got a $3000 cheaper car?   

Also if you "need" to do certain things, but very infrequently, remember you can rent a car/van/truck for a few days for usually surprisingly little.   A lot of people who lived in the city did that, no need for a car during the week they walk/bike/bus/uber to work and only really needed a car once every couple of weeks to run errands, I did that for years HUGE savings not having to pay for a full time car/insurance/parking.

If you're buying a used car, take it to a mechanic you trust and pay to have a full inspection done.   If you don't know one, you'll need to do some research to find one - and don't just let your dad do it if he insists, it's a whole different ballgame from a full time pro with experience with recent cars and the professional equipment to do tests.    Pay for the Carfax and look out for accidents, something minor might be OK but it's hard to tell when it crosses the line to "hidden  future problems".   Also unfortunately stuff doesn't always get reported, so make sure the mechanic looks for things like flood damage.

I live in the city, don't put on a lot of miles so I generally opt for a big old gas guzzler - for my case anything new or expensive is just money flying away as it depreciates.   I don't have to stress about minor dings and insurance is massively cheaper.  I accept it's going to need a few more $$ a year as things wear out, but it's a common car and generally cheap to have work done (and I have a great super-trustworthy mechanic).   My favorites were the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car, sadly alll discontinued 10 years ago.   You used to be able to find very nice ones, especially the Grand Marquis, for really good prices.

I kind of looked at SUVs a few years ago, my go-to was probably going to  be a RAV4, 4-8 years old.   Good luck finding a reasonably priced one now, unfortunately     My mechanic highly recommended Toyotas in general - kind of boring but reliable and keep their value.   Once you're narrowing in on a brand/model, do some serious google searches for common problems with that model for the specific years you're looking at, if it's something big that hasn't already been taken care of it's likely to be your problem soon.   The new vs used has narrowed some because of high used car prices recently though, so it's definitely not as cut and dried as when I was weighing the factors.

Good luck!

[femmelf]

I am appreciating this a whole lot actually. Thank you very much and please keep it coming.

Stupid Question 1: I have been told by a dealer that only their dealership could do warranty work for a car they sold.... I am immediately skeptical, but polite about it. Most car makers are national/international. "I don't buy this"/"I don't trust this guy," is my immediate thought. Now, I could see that maybe the dealership might offer something to replace a warranty that had run out, or something extra on top of it maybe. I went to a "Chevy, Buick, Cadillac, GMC" dealership just to see what they had and also as sort of a practice run in case I didn't find anything (I might have seriously considered something if it was good).

Stupid Question 2: Is there such a thing as a discount for paying "in cash" (check or card too). This guy said he would have knocked off $1000 if there was no financing and "cash," or "pay today," without financing.... Is that a thing dealerships do or something that's stupid to even think about? I'm asking for two reasons A.) I want to know if he was BSing me on both points (this and the one above), and B.) curiosity, is that something dealerships actually do (you pay all at once, they lower the price)? He is not making an American made car sound appealing, and he is throwing what I think may be red flags. That is, unless of course he's actually telling the truth about the warranty and "pay today" stuff. Skeptical girl is skeptical and has no idea how to process this information.

What do you think of Toyotas? Possibly something in a small SUV or car (carolla or something, not married to the idea yet at all).

Usage: I usually drive alone or occasionally with one passenger. I live about an hour from work (so 50 or 60 miles). It snows, sometimes badly, in winter (that's kind of why I was looking at small SUV, but I wouldn't mind a normal front wheel drive car). For the most part, I haul groceries and things like that. I have a crappy, small place in a small town (most would consider the middle of nowhere, you know, an hour from work) that I have been slowly fixing up. This means I occasionally haul home improvement stuff (and the price of any home improvement thing at all like wood, etc., at all has been ridiculously high lately). I hope to be able to continue to work from home more as the only slight benefit of the nightmare that is COVID, assuming I can keep holding everything together. I try to keep a car for a long time by making sure the oil is changed, etc. My old car that is now dying has well over 250,000 miles on it. I keep cars long term.

[nenjin]

Stupid Question 1: I have been told by a dealer that only their dealership could do warranty work for a car they sold....

Well, they sell you the warranty so yeah, if you want it covered under the warranty they sold you, they or someone they authorize have do the work. It's likely a stipulation of the warranty agreement.

Warranties are basically a scam IMO. You're essentially insuring the car you bought from them against failure as defined by a list of conditions they specify. It's so much like insurance that dealerships sell your warranty's value to other companies, who then begin harrrasing you via phone to renew your warranty. I got calls for a warranty on my car for like 4 years after I bought it....and I never signed up for it. None the less they put me on someone's list who then auto dialed me trying to get money out of me. They get bought, sold and traded between companies like horses. Warranties are a joke IMO and part of their profit model. Consider this: when you take your car to any old mechanic, you don't pay up front. Their motivation is to service your car on a scheduled appointment to get your business. Warranty work sold to you by someone....they already have your money. They have less motivation to do it quickly, or well, because you've already rewarded them for it. I'd liken it to people in the South who paid for flood insurance and then Katrina happened and many were told catastrophic flooding wasn't covered by their....flood insurance. Imagine that same sorta thing except for your vehicle. Imagine having to argue with a dealership about something you believe is covered by the warranty and they don't. Do warranties "work"? Sure. I'm sure some people have had fine experiences with them. But I imagine those people also generally don't ever have to worry about pinching pennies. Everything about warranties strikes me as money market scams, that occasionally allow you to get a part replaced without it "costing" you.

Stupid Question 2: Is there such a thing as a discount for paying "in cash" (check or card too). This guy said he would have knocked off $1000 if there was no financing and "cash," or "pay today," without financing.... Is that a thing dealerships do or something that's stupid to even think about? I'm asking for two reasons A.) I want to know if he was BSing me on both points (this and the one above), and B.) curiosity, is that something dealerships actually do (you pay all at once, they lower the price)? He is not making an American made car sound appealing, and he is throwing what I think may be red flags. That is, unless of course he's actually telling the truth about the warranty and "pay today" stuff. Skeptical girl is skeptical and has no idea how to process this information.

It comes down to what their profit model is. Sounds to me like he is eager to get rid of that unit for one reason or another, and is incentivizing you to buy it now by taking a hit on his profits. At least that's the implication. For all you know he's actually charging you what it's probably worth but saying he's knocking a thousand off to convince you to buy. Most dealerships are eager to get people to finance, depending on how they're doing things. So I'd suspect maybe it's a lemon, maybe it's been sitting there forever. Or maybe they just really need to put up some sales.

What do you think of Toyotas? Possibly something in a small SUV or car (carolla or something, not married to the idea yet at all).

I have driven Toyota's pretty much my whole life. From early 80s Celicas to mid 80s Tercels to 90s and 2000s Corollas. I think they're solidly made cars that are fairly rugged. Maintenance on the lower end models tends to be pretty cheap. But if you want an SUV, just prepare for everything to simply cost more. I pretty much swear by Toyota. About the worst thing they've done that I recall is their air bag safety which they've been doing constant recalls on for like a decade out of an abundance of caution. They've never done me wrong. If a Toyota is properly maintenanced with regular oil changes etc.....they can last you decades.

[Jimmy]

I second the comments above about extended warranties. They're mostly a scam designed to get more of your money out of your pocket at the checkout. That being said, I'm a little biased because I enjoy the strong protections of Australian consumer laws, which force sellers to pay for repairs if something they sell you is faulty, so YMMV.

These days, most of the "brand X vs. brand Y" isn't too relevant within the major brands. It used to be that you'd buy a single brand because you could source parts for it easily in your local area. Now, with the internet being the logistics behemoth it is, sourcing parts isn't a big deal.

Of course, the days where you'd spend the weekend under the hood of your car tuning it up in your home garage are mostly gone. I miss the good old days of stripping down VW bugs with my old man. Most everything requires computer access and specialized equipment. I still highly recommend learning to do simple maintenance and troubleshooting on your vehicle, such as being able to change a tyre, swap out a flat battery, or check the oil and top up fluids. These are important skills that will save your money being wasted on unnecessary trips to your mechanic.

Heck, spend an evening or two watching car repair videos on YouTube. One day it might save your ass, and you'd be surprised at how entertaining it can be as well. Cars are tools. Learning how to use them properly goes with owning them.

[anewaname]

I'd "third" that... Warranties and insurance are "give me your money first" businesses. You are always better keeping your money in the bank and maintaining the machine properly.

Unless someone with authority in that insurance company is your buddy, if you are that lucky then you should pay a small amount for insurance policy and coerce your buddy to sigh off on a big cash payout on your policy.

[Robot Parade Leader]

Nenjin is right about a lot of things here. I have a little different view, but he is largely not wrong. Follow the money.

Warranties depend on a couple things. Dealership auto mechanic time is expensive, and Jimmy is right, a lot of cars aren't as easy to fix anymore. There are expensive computer diagnostic things now and it sucks to repair yourself. That's if the average person even can anymore. I can totally respect mechanics having a skill.

I don't know about buying a warranty from a small company. That sounds fishy as hell.

If it is an international company's warranty, that MIGHT be a bit different depending on how the dealership doing the work gets paid. You might ask one of their finance people a few things.

What is covered and when? Power Train Limited Warranty: It varies, but usually that's your engine and transmission, period. Anything else and they don't care.  "Bumper to Bumper Warranty" is often a bullshit marketing term and it isn't really that. Ask them what the inclusive things are and what the exclusions are. Exclusions can have things like certain parts or types of things that cause damage. Ask if it covers factory defects or environmental damage (things that happened just outside). Keep in mind, your car insurance will be covering accidents (assuming you have full coverage and not just liability), so that's different. ASK THEM ABOUT THE COMPUTERS. There are computers in cars today and lots of electronics. There are the touch screen displays, and they are expensive when they go. Ask if the warranty covers that, and the electronics. Ask them what happens if that thing acts up or stops working. NOTE: Get one of the cars that still has a physical key lock option. I have been locked out of my own car before like this and would have really, really liked a mechanical key backup when the fob thing just died. (Those keyfob things are like $300 and it sucks bad).

If you get a 100,000 mile / 10 year power train warranty, ask them how that applies to a used car, if it even does. If you get a certified preowned used car, they might have a warranty on it. The question is, is it 100,000 miles/10 years from when YOU buy it, or from when it was originally bought? So if you buy a car with like 25,000 miles on it, does that mean your warranty expires at 100,000 miles for the car or 125,000 miles. Same thing with the year. You need to ask when the clock starts. If the car is 2 years old, then do you have 8 years left on that 10 year warranty?

How do they get paid? Always try to figure this one out. They usually have 3 sources of warranty revenue. First one is you, upfront. Second one is also you, with a deductible. Mine is $50 if they find anything and the diagnostic/plug in is always free. Finally, ask the larger ones if they submit claims to the international car company Example, Does the dealership submit a claim to Ford Motor Co (or Toyoda, or Audi, or whichever car maker) when they do this warranty work? This actually gives their parts and service department a reason to give a damn, because they want to bill Ford, or whoever, and to do that they have to find work on Ford cars covered under warranty. If it is the type of system when they can't do this, then yeah they have no rush a lot of the time. Also, ask them if the warranty covers the use of a rental car for you while they fix it. That often speeds the up a bit. Mine does and they want that loaner car back so they actually fix stuff. When they guy sold me my car, he actually took me into his office and showed me how he files these claims. Most are not gonna do that, but ask if they file claims with Ford (or whoever makes the car). Ask if it transfers to the buyer when you sell the car or if it extinguishes when you transfer/sell it.

When it comes to warranties. It is important to know what it covers and when, how you measure when it ends, and to follow the money. How the dealership makes cash on this is a huge thing.

I Know my limited power train warranty expires in 2028. My bumper to bumper one in 2024 and my electronics one in 2023. They do it that way, because the thing is going to break the day after the warranty coverage expires for that thing. The day after the 2023 expiration, I am probably going to have a massive electronics problem. I bet you it will be expensive as hell to fix and all on me. The company knows how long these things last for and will only warranty them until they are past a certain point. Magic how they break right after that date.

Sounds like either the guy you mentioned has a warranty that is crap (not from a large company like Ford and only for his shop),
My guy loves doing warranty work on my car and he showed me how he bills the manufacturer after my $50. I swear man, I want a lawyer to look over some of the warranty papers I've seen.

Cash discount? Check the kelly bluebook value to verify the value based on the type of car and milage etc. Right now a lot of dealers are hurting in the pandemic, so it is possible, but I doubt it. They make a lot on financing. Used car financing, even a certified preowned has a higher interest rate than a new car.

I don't have a lot of experience with toyotas, but the one I had was good.

[nenjin]

^ crackin' good info there.

[Iduno]

Also, dealerships don't generally attract the best and brightest mechanics, but they do generally charge more than other garages because they've got better access to official parts and tools.

So you can often get better work done at a garage that isn't a dealership, but you need to do more research into which garages are reputable and least likely to screw up or cheat you.

And every brand has something that they're good and bad at. Ford is known for having failures on major parts, Chevy is known for anything that isn't essential being more likely to break than other brands, Dodge puts the biggest engine in with the transmission that will only barely handle the power for a few months, I think Mitsubishi likes huge rims with thin tires (triple the cost, but they last nearly 1/4 as long), Nissan doesn't have governors or other limiters to the engine power if you are willing to destroy the engine for a bit of extra power (leading to a reputation for having poor longevity), etc. Find the reputation you can live with, and find out *why* that's their reputation.

[nenjin]

I don't know if I agree with dealerships hiring substandard mechanics.

For probably the last 10+ years I've only taken my car to dealerships. (Because I hate dealing with shadetree mechanics.)

My reasoning being....if a dealership fucks you over, there are many people you can complain to. The mechanic. The service manager. The general manager.

If a mechanic at a random auto shop fucks you over, there are maybe 2 people you can argue with. The mechanic, who will immediately tell you to fuck off. Or the owner, who depending on how they think about their reputation, may also tell you to fuck off.

Meanwhile dealerships have lots of people who don't do the work but are responsible for the outcome. They give you their business cards. They wear suits. They're malleable when it comes to complaints. They're essentially in a customer service role, and as someone in customer service, my mandate when someone is pissed and wants some freebies....is to kick it up to someone higher in the food chain. You wanna pay less but have no recourse other than complaining to the Better Business Bureau? Go to a small mom and pop mechanic. You want to pay more but be able to squeeze someone's nuts to get results? Go to a dealership.

Secondly, both the Honda and Toyota dealerships I go to or have gone to for service maintain spotless bays, their techs are clean and professional looking, their equipment is new, cared for and maintained.

So I generally feel good going to a major brand dealership for service work OUTSIDE of warranty work. You have options for new or used parts, and they can generally show you anything you want to verify prices.

Versus mom and pop shops which can vary across the board. I think you're much, much more likely to find a down and out guy making $12/hr who happens to be a passable mechanic at a random auto shop than going to a dealership.

(Full disclosure: I work in IT providing inventory software to the heavy truck, light and medium duty and automotive industry. I talk to mechanics ALL THE TIME, who are trying to use our software on some 15 year old computer in a filthy shop. I have visited such places many times as part of my job. These guys.....are often not the sharpest tools in the toolbox. And about half of my customers are what I'd call mom and pop outfits. I.e less than 20 employees, single owner, yadda yadda.....some of these guys can barely use a computer and make wages close to what fast food employees do. I can goddamn guarantee you that a large dealership with a professional show room floor and full service bay is going to be hiring better people for more money than "Tony's Auto" or "<insert highway name here> Brakes & Service.")

Not to paint all small business mechanics as bad. But the turnover among mechanics for them can be high and they're rarely well compensated which can come out directly in the quality of work they do and they speed at which they do it.

[Jimmy]

I also agree with nenjin on this one. I typically get my vehicle serviced at a dealership. Their presentation and service are miles above the standard of the previous mechanic I used to visit, when I decided to stop going there after I'd gone to collect my car and interrupted the owner-operator halfway through a six-pack of beer before noon.

I figure if they want you or your circle of word-of-mouth contacts to one day consider buying one of their new cars, they'll have an incentive to leave you with a good impression.

[nenjin]

I should probably add that "dealerships" can broadly describe a lot of kinds of operations in terms of quality and size. You can have dealerships with a service shop that are still pretty small. You can have huge corporate dealerships with hundreds of units that get streets named after them. Point is, whether you're looking at dealerships with mechanics or just mechanics, take in the details. I've seen quite a bit in about a decade in my industry, and the difference between a professional operation and what Jimmy mentioned is night and day. If something about an automotive place really strikes you as "don't give a fuck", treat it like a red flag.