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Author Topic: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Bay12 Group Password: MAGMA. It's DLC time!  (Read 46409 times)

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Gameplay Preview!
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2021, 10:42:11 am »

What to say.....

The map looks sick, really love that hand drawn look.

It's hard to tell what it is a normal weapon attack and what's a weapon art. One snippet had the player bust out what looked like 3 different weapon arts on the same weapon.

The Mounted Combat looks decent. Looks like you trade a lot of damage potential for mobility instead. You can swing your weapon and cast a spell, but nothing like the combo potential when fighting on the ground.

The Legacy Dungeon Stormvale Castle looks amazing. So much verticality, so many options to approach it.

The stats screen has all the usual Dark Souls stat lines. Str/Dex/Int/Vigor, and then Mind and Arcane. As well as Equip Load, Poise, Item Discovery. All the classics.

There appears to be a lot more variety in how you attack. Of course, Soulsborne games often get reduced down to "R1 ftw" and that'll probably be true here too. But there's jumping attacks, charged attacks that look like Bloodborne in terms of how they function, parries, weapon arts, mounted combat, spells, summons....you have a shit load of tools in your toolbox for combat.

Summons surprised me. I thought it was supposed to be you summon one guy, but in places it looks like you summon a whole posse. I'm guessing each summon is either one big dude or multiple smaller guys.

So far it's turning out to be everything that was promised. I can't wait to get lost in this world.

Quote
well, yes, but like, what about this one in particular

I dunno, I didn't play Eternal Ring. But if Tenchu/Shadow Tower/King's Field/everything else is any indication, then yes, something from Eternal Ring is probably in Elden Ring.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 12:27:10 pm by nenjin »
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Urist McScoopbeard

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Gameplay Preview!
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2021, 12:40:09 pm »

Looks fun!

But uh... possibly unpopular opinion here, the game looks... mm, very busy? Like... it's kinda hard to see things--AND/OR we see too much, I know its probably not the final build, but some of the things in the background kind of betray the scale in a bad way.

Everything has TEXTURE, but a relatively small palette--even the sky is like muddled camouflage... I'm like losing my ability to process imagery and depth watching this video lol.
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nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Gameplay Preview!
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2021, 12:55:12 pm »

I think that's a fair criticism. This is their first open world game, so.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Gameplay Preview!
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2021, 12:48:37 pm »

Iron Pineapple is a pretty successful Souls youtuber, and he got 30 hours with the network test ahead of the actual public network test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFR5HsPcng

The video includes his own gameplay footage and first hand takes on stuff. If you're eager to know more about Elden Ring, right now, this is probably the best source for that info until others release more impressions.

If you're not wanting to spoil yourself, stay well away from it.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 02:52:42 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2021, 11:56:42 pm »

I'm starting to get the sense that Elden Ring is going for maximum accessibility, and there's some specific choices they've made that kinda strike me as gamey.

-You can put down summons signs ala the old way, or add yourself to a "summon pot", which players can walk up to and just pick an available summon partner from a list. These pots are found generally where you'd expect you want coop partners. Near PoIs with enemy, near the mini-dungeons. You can also seamlessly move between a lot of stuff in the open world, it does not appear many things except boss fights are fog-walled off. So that's a nice QoL feature for multiplayer. But I'd kinda miss the raw and dynamic nature of placing signs. It sorta reminds me when WoW made dungeon finder groups, and getting a group went from a struggle to easy and rather impersonal. You kinda got to know the people you were grouping up with because you had to. Dungeon finders just made it into a McGroup.

-The Spirit Summons can only be summoned within a certain range of a certain statue or specifically in some boss fights. I'm a little disappointed by that, in that I thought they would be very dynamic in how they could be used. And it sorta implies things are balanced against them getting used. Now, the areas you can summon them could be fairly large and that'd be alright. But from what I've seen of gameplay it's more "Ok, here's this camp full of guys, have fun with your summons." Feels a little contrived.

-Bosses (how many is unclear) seem to put a bleed effect on you when you block an attack, called Hemorrhage. It's like Bleed from Dark Souls 3. When the bar fills up you take a bunch of damage. I get why they did it, because shields and blocking seem hella effective in ER. But it's kinda gamey. When you add in Poise and Posture...there's a lot going on now.

-The gameplay I'm seeing now reminds me a lot of what I've seen from Demon Souls Remastered. Combat seems pretty fast, and damage gets handed out in pretty large chunks. I know that sounds weird to say about a Soulsborne game, because they all kinda fit that description in some way. But there's something about Demon Soul's Remastered combat and stuff that just looks....a little too slick, is the only way I can put it. Dark Souls 3 looks and feels meaty, the movement is somewhat more ponderous. Sekiro by comparison you were pretty agile and didn't plod around as much. ER looks closer to Sekiro and DSR than Dark Souls. It has that same slickness to everything.

-They've overhauled weapon enchanting from previous games in an interesting but kind of gamey way. They've combined Weapons Arts and Enchantments. Stay with me. Weapons Arts are now called Ashes of War. There are all different kinds and are earned in all sorts of different ways. Ashes of War are slotted on to weapons. Some are restricted, like, can only go on a Slashing Weapon. Some Ashes of War are bound to a specific weapon only. An Ash of War does two things. One it provides a special attack to your weapon, i.e a weapon art. But two...it lets you set what scaling you want your weapon to use. So let's say you have an Ash of War called "Super Duper Lightning Strike." The weapon art makes your weapon glow with lightning and you slam it down and it makes a lightning explosion. In your equipment menu, Super Duper Lightning Strike also has two scalings: Strength and Faith. You can change the scaling in your menu at any time. You can also swap Ashes of War around any time as well, like you're equipping gear. So what used to take farming materials, and going to the blacksmith, and really planning out how you want to craft your weapon, in Elden Ring you just have to find the Ash of War that works for you and equip it. But there's some considerations too. Maybe you love your weapon type, but the Ash of War you want doesn't jive with it. Maybe you love the Weapon Art it grants, but don't like the scaling. Or maybe you really need the scaling but you find the Weapon Art to be subpar compared to others you've seen. It definitely simplifies getting your build to where you want to be and not locking you into it, because the resources and weapons to modify gear in Soulsbournes are often limited. And that's pretty nice. But player choices you've made feel less binding when you can just equip/unequip some things and change up your character. I think this is a combination of a thematic choice by From Soft to go along with the IP and a rethink of a core system they've used for many games. Remains to be seen if it works out well.

-Weapon Arts seem crazy strong in ER. In DS3 and Sekrio, Weapon Arts just weren't that strong compared to your normal attacks. They were novel and cool, some provided good buffs rather than attacks. But by and large they were just anemic in damage and inefficient compared to just normal light and heavy attacks. And if you were going to spend FP on something, magic was generally a much better use of it. Only late in DS3's life did Weapon Arts come to be appreciated for their usefulness in specific situations or combos. So if you want someone to use a feature or thing, it has to be worth their time. ER seems to have taken that to heart. Weapon Arts seem to do really good damage, have AoE, do multi-hit combos and look badass. It really helps that From Soft has upped their visual effects game, stuff looks beautiful and awesome. It already feels like you've reached anime levels of action within the first few minutes of the game. And that's pretty cool. But it contributed to my sense of things seeming a little easy. When one use of a Weapon Art takes like a 1/3rd of a mini-bosses' health, it leaves it feeling a little anti-climatic despite how cool it looks. I'm really hoping what we've seen so far isn't the exact early game experience. There is a shit load of whizbang stuff that's put into your hands from very early on. I think they did this for a couple reasons. #1: The theme of ER is that you're exiled not-gods coming home to beat up demi-gods and take their power. That kind of necessitates cooler looking stuff coming to the player earlier on. #2: Dark Souls often was a slow process of finding cooler looking and better weapons. It took time to level, find the right thing, infuse it, temp buff it with consumables, unlock the sexier and more grandiose spells. The Souls games could be a pretty drab affair until you, hostage like, came to appreciate how subdued everything was. It made the special things stick out more when you found them. ER is looking to impress early. Like, immediately. I'm increasingly thinking that the tutorial level, if there is one, will at least give you some space to absorb all the new stuff coming at you. And assuming there won't be one, then the minute you enter the first area, you're shooting lasers and doing fruity animoo melee weapon arts. It lacks subtlety compared to Dark Souls, and to me that signals a desire to not bore people out of playing the game by giving them candy right away. I'm not opposed to it, and it's never a good idea to judge everything based on something like a network test but it kinda aligns with my other feelings.

-People are making a big deal about sleep arrows. Considering you can just craft them and they work even on large intimidating foes, they feel like another nod toward accessibility and options for getting through the game besides just mastering the combat.

-You have unlimited stamina when sprinting in the open world and you're not in combat. You have a mount you can summon anywhere in the open world as long as you're not invaded, that double jumps, can be launched up tall cliffs using jump pads and has its own fast mode sprint. You can fast travel from any place to specific place while in the open world. It's like From Soft has taken every modern convenience from every open world game design and put them all in ER, and made most of it available right from the start of the game. Part of me is like "good." But another kinda feels like it's reached overkill proportions. Why have unlimited sprinting stamina in the open world when you have a magical goat to ride around on? Why not have stamina just be stamina so it's consistent. You can get a mount in the first, like 5 to 10 minutes of the game.

-Also notable is that so far that we've seen, there is no trial by fire boss that kicks your ass. There IS a big armored dude on a steed right outside where the game starts, but he's optional. You're only engaging him if you choose to because he's hard to miss. Dark Souls and BB etc... always had that first moment when it lets you know what kind of game it's going to be by throwing you into a challenging fight. Asylum Demon. Gundryr. Gyobu Masataka Oniwa. The Beast in the Clinic (optional too but he's literally in your way.) There are probably more. They were always the first hurdle to overcome before the "real game" started. In ER, it seems like you just get to dive into the open world seemingly from the very start. Again, hard to say if the network test omits part of it. But if they skip that it would be telling. I remember some people getting royally stressed out by the Gundryr fight in Dark Souls 3 because they couldn't get to the rest of the game without beating him. Maybe they want the game to not scare people away early. Or maybe you can say the first Legacy Dungeon is the first real boss of the game.

-Again with the network test it is hard to say what balance is or where it's at. But what's being shown, a lot of things look really strong. Magic looked hella strong. Weapon Arts look hella strong. Guard Counters look hella strong (although it kinda appears they don't work on bosses?). Jumping attacks look hella strong because they deal a lot of posture damage. Now if you turned some mid level Dark Souls characters loose in the early game, they'd look pretty strong too. And maybe that's what's going on here. But it's contributing to my mounting sense that things look sort of easy.

-I think it's starting to come home to me how Elden Ring is reshaping itself around being an open world game. Everything has a very structured feel to it. You have bonfires evenly spaced across the open world as paths through the content. Each content bit has a little shrine you can rez at instead of respawning at the last bonfire. Each piece of content has a little summoning box for collecting coop players, and another little statue that says whether or not you can summon spirits. The mini-dungeons live up to the mini-moniker, on the order of a cutdown Chalice Dungeon from BB. They even have the same mechanics of finding a lever to open a door to get to the boss. There's content and collectibles and crafting materials and huntable animals and enemies and mini dungeons and bonfires and mini-bosses....like every 20 feet. Watching VaatiVidya do this 25 minute run he just bounced from thing to thing to thing. It is an odd experience to see this now combined with the Dark Souls formula. I've played plenty of open world games and it's hard not to maybe feel slightly jaded about it. Because that's what open world games tend to do eventually: make you jaded to their content through overexposure and grind.

-This really does feel like a new IP, despite being the culmination of everything From Soft has done since Demon Souls and being so close to Dark Souls in terms of design and asset/idea re-use that it's hard not to think of it as Dark Souls 4. It's got a very different vibe and theme than Dark Souls though. Dark Souls and Bloodborne and to some degree Sekiro all share the same vibe. The world is shitty and falling apart and you're either going to keep the cycle going or break it. There's a grimness and a darkness to everything about the games. Sekiro less than the other two but it's there to some degree. Elden Ring is feeling like something different, tonally. It's triumphant. It's a return from exile and a retaking of what's yours. Kicking out all the spoiled, debauched demigods and becoming the next king. It's still plenty edgy and dark and weird the way From Soft games always are. But there isn't the weary hopelessness draped over ER like there is the other games. There's this energy and heroic nobility that is being played up. Like From Soft's take on God of War, almost. While I like the change, it's a new IP and it feels a little hard to connect to some of it. NPCs are saying stuff that should sound edgy and meaningful but, ya know, it's new and you're not sure if you buy it. "Finger" Maidens? Hrmmm. Some of the mini-dungeons felt, for lack of a better term, hella generic. One was a cave with some wolves and in the back was "The Beastman of <some place>." It wouldn't have been out of place in Skyrim or something like that. The enemies are great but some of the environments look a bit like generic fantasy. There's camps with tents and a palisade and crates and soldiers. Some of the mini dungeons look like small catacombs out in the middle of the open world, usually underground in a cave. I could tell we'll be seeing those a lot. It all was very pretty, but seemed a little pedestrian without that theme of undeath laid over it. Maybe when I'm playing it I'll start feeling connected to this stuff but from a distance some of it has not drawn me in. The Legacy Dungeon looks way more like I expect. It's the side content that has looked a little bland so far.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 07:16:30 pm by nenjin »
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Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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Frumple

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2021, 12:14:30 am »

... they're actually calling something finger maidens? And this passed localization?
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Robsoie

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2021, 12:52:34 pm »

Quote
Elden Ring is being directed by Hidetaka Miyazaki with worldbuilding by fantasy novelist George R. R. Martin
It's then perfectly making sense they're calling something "finger maidens".
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nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2021, 02:38:55 pm »

Continuing on with my belief that accessibility is a primary focus of the game now.....

The changes to weapon enchanting really remind me of Covenants across the three Souls games.

In Dark Souls 1, Covenants were a commitment. You couldn't arbitrarily change your Covenant on a whim. You had to visit people and there were real consequences for abandoning your Covenant.

In Dark Souls 2, you just had to visit the different Covenant leaders to change. There were no penalties and you could swap back and forth as long as you visited them.

In Dark Souls 3 it got even simpler. Covenants became just gear items, that you could swap at pretty much any time once you got access to them.

So it's a trend that these quirky features in From Soft games get simplified as time goes on. Usually for the best. But it does lose some of its world building/investment qualities when things that are commitments just become easily changed options.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 02:48:53 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2021, 11:53:44 am »

General access to the network test starts today. Starting to watch some PVP videos. PvP looks a little flat, NGL. Not sure what it is. Maybe it's the setting, or the fact damage scaling in PvP seems wildly different than in PvE. Gonna watch some moar.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2021, 05:42:41 pm »

Slight correction, I guess you can only mess with Ashes of War at a Bonfire. So, at least your choices are somewhat committed, you can't hot swap on the fly.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2021, 05:55:26 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2021, 05:02:19 pm »

So PvP.

Let me describe where I come from with Soulsbourne PvP before I talk about my take on it in ER.

It's not what I play the games for. I get it but I'm not good at it. I haven't done a ton of it, but I've watched an absolute shit load of high end PvPers.

I'm not super invested in PvP but I understand most of the nuances of PvP up to DS3.

As I said before, my immediate impression of ER PvP was that it felt flat for some reason. Now I think I've got a few ideas why, maybe. I'm caught between actually liking some of the changes to PvP while ultimately finding they make fights LOOK a little less interesting. Maybe they're more interesting to actually do.

  • Damage seems fairly low to start out with in PvP specifically. Even backstabs and parries and what not, not much rises above 50% damage in any one hit. Fighting people seems a bit like chopping wood. There's limited heals as per usual but there seems less call for panic chugging because damage doesn't come in crazy fast. Attrition, is how it's being described. Which is how it already was but it seems even more so in ER.
  • Perhaps the biggest thing I've seen is there are few to no true combos for what's in the network test. For those who don't know, true combos in Dark Souls 3 are a series of attacks that when done right are pretty much inescapable. You can't dodge roll out of it or react in the middle of one, it's just guaranteed damage. It might just a series of a particular weapons light attacks that are a true combo, or it might a light attack into a heavy attack, or a light into a special move, etc...it varies greatly by weapon but there are quite a few true combos in DS3 and they're how you shut down people very quickly. ER by contrast doesn't seem to have them. You get that first hit in and your victim seems to get plenty of opportunity to avoid the second, third, whatever follow ups unless they aren't reacting fast enough. So it's much harder to just blender people with spamming attacks because the frames in between each attack are more generous for dodging out. I.e, fights take much longer in Elden Ring it feels like. It takes more work to a kill a single person 1v1 than Dark Souls 3, maybe. The emphasis has shifted from blendering someone (which they can avoid easier) or catching them in a series of unavoidable attacks. Now it seems about landing that first, good hit for lots of damage and forcing them to chug early. So as people come to together it's a bit less exciting IMO because they almost always break away after the first hit now. Dark Souls 3 PvP was largely about spacing to get that first introductory hit in. ER is still that, but it's much harder to really punish people or capitalize on your advantage.
  • There is of course a lot of other stuff going on now in combat too. Jumping attacks are now a thing and while they look good, there is something slightly goofy about two people jumping at each other and trading damage mid air, you just kinda fall straight down when you take damage. There's posture to consider, which seems separate from stamina guard breaks. Guard breaks still happen way more regularly than someone getting their posture broken. There's Guard Counters which, while strong, are fairly readable and easy to get out of the way of. I have a feeling once people get used to them, they're going to start being a free parry. And speaking of parries, they still seem to function exactly the same. I'll be interested to see if it's easier to land parries in ER than in Dark Souls.
  • Backstabs, as people have used them in Dark Souls 3 PvP, seem to have undergone some kind of change however. Typically what veteran PvPers will do is fight you without being locked on, wait for an attack animation they know, then run around behind you and backstab you while you're in the middle of it. I've seen this done to the PvE in ER already. But something about the "stickiness" of backstabs seems way off from Dark Souls 3. It's much harder to pull of these "pivot backstabs", and even just running at a dude's back who is standing still, it seems harder to actually get the backstab. I for one kind of appreciate this because the pivot backstab meta of Dark Souls 3 PvP kinda sucks. Once you know it and get good at it, so many weapons just become free backstabs every time someone swings them and it's kinda garbo. I respect the skill and execution but not the effect it has on the meta.
  • Weapon Arts are carrying a lot of the weight in PvP now it seems. They're good openers, they're good finishers, they can function as easy to use ranged attacks. If people figure out how to chain attacks INTO weapon arts, or vicea versa, I suspect that's going to be the new meta. They're just very effective and make the "area of play" in a fight much much larger depending on what people are using. When someone can zap you with a lightning bolt from the sky at any time across a reasonable size arena, that changes how much dancing around and staring lovingly into each other's eyes people can do in PvP. On the other though, weapon arts have pretty fixed animations. They aren't super dynamic and since many/all of them can be charged up for extra damage, they telegraph pretty hard.
  • Hyper-Armor seems to have been reworked/maybe removed and replaced entirely with poise? It's unclear. But RN, weapons that in Dark Souls 3 people knew the exact hyper armor frames for, which appear again in Elden Ring, have different or no hyper armor frames. Like the Claymore, the beloved 2hander of Dark Souls for its hyper armor on its light attacks, seems to not have them anymore. This is a pretty big deal considering the weapons otherwise function the same. The whole meta of what you can get away with and what you can't has changed.
  • You can only invade people now if they specifically ask for it or if they're doing coop. So for invaders, the odds they're going to be outnumbered are much higher than in Dark Souls 3. Most of your fights you're going to be outnumbered. To help invaders out with this, they get a new item with several charges when they invade. I think they're called Bloody Finger somethings. With a very short animation, what they do is reload the host's world for the invader and spawn them in a new place. It's basically a ninja smoke bomb. They use it and almost instantly disappear, and are teleported to somewhere else in the host's world, so they can heal and reposition for another attack. So if you thought getting rid of invaders in Dark Souls 3 was like trying to kill cockroaches, get ready because persistent invaders who really want to screw with you just got that much harder to finish off.
  • This is counterbalanced by the fact that when the host and their bros wipe out a complete group of PvE enemies they get their Estus refilled a little, much more regularly and consistently than in Dark Souls 3 it seems. So while the invader is healing up and strategizing and running back to find the host (their compass tells them the exact direction the host is in), the host is also recovering and wiping out more PvE so there's fewer distractions for the invader to rely on.
  • On top of THIS, way more enemies seem capable of harming an invader if they get in the way of their attacks. They won't directly attack the invader, but shit like dragons and Gyobu 2.0 and what not will all hit invaders with their big sweeping attacks. So it's basically like the last DLC of Dark Souls 3, the big area where people like to invade, where there are huge mobs that can hurt everyone in their way with their attacks. ER seems to have taken that and applied it across the whole game. It's not clear where the breakpoint is because normal enemies don't seem to do this.

So yeah. All in all quite a few things have changed around PvP. Remains to be seen if it's all for the better. If I had to say who got the better of it in ER I'm going to have to go with the Host. Invaders have an uphill battle even more than in Dark Souls I think. A 1v1 Honor Duel hasn't really changed but I feel like the days of a single invader bullying a whole team of people might kinda be over. Invaders have more tools to escape but not necessarily any tools to help them deal with too many opponents. And all this is happening in the Open World areas. Maybe invasions in Legacy Dungeons are a lot more viable.

I think I may do my first playthrough of Elden Ring completely solo. Just seems like that kinda game to me.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 06:44:45 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Egan_BW

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2021, 05:10:55 pm »

Vaati was invading inside of a dungeon and really using the complex terrain and traps to his advantage. It seems as though if you, the invader, have more knowledge of the environment than the host who is trying to push through it that's a significant advantage.

In the open world you might see some crazy sniper builds whittling away at the host's party and teleporting away if they get close, but that depends on how good ranged options really are. There's only a shortbow in the test and magic is short range.

Good riddance to combos. Maybe we want to see some moves other than shortsword R1s, you know?
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nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Hands-on previews starting to come out.
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2021, 05:44:51 pm »

I both agree and don't. Mostly because it's changed the pacing of fights. I was watching them going "ok now here's where you....oh, no I guess not." "And after that attack you go into....oh, no way that'll ever hit." I kept feeling left like anything beyond the first hit against someone paying attention didn't matter. That combos and fast combat are for PvE.

ER PvP looks like this right now:

Two players come together.

*spacing happens*

Player 1 attacks and hits.

Player 2 rolls out before a 2nd hit connects.

*spacing happens*

Someone uses a weapon art at range.

*spacing happens*

Player 2 attacks and hits.

Player 1 rolls out before a 2nd hit connects.

*repeat*

Aggression doesn't seem to pay off. And with poise in there, it's kinda unclear right now what will stagger you out of an attack and what won't. Which also kinda penalizes aggression. It's like in DS3, hitting someone was an opening to something else, which then makes them panic, which makes you aggressive to finish them, but then they pull a reversal and now you're on the backfoot, they have space to heal, the fight resets.....

Here it just seems like, get your hit, back up, wait for them to make another mistake. Dark Souls already kinda had this passivity problem but there were opportunities for aggression + skill to crack open a passive person's defense and put them on the back foot. This seems a bit less so.

But it's way too early to judge, and like I said, I'll probably play the whole game through before I bother with any multiplayer.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 05:49:11 pm by nenjin »
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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Story Trailer.
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2021, 12:31:11 am »

Three Minute Story Trailer.

NGL, I was sort of Noun'd out by the first 1:30 of the trailer. It definitely has that feel of GRRM to it. It's making me think Elden Ring is going to try to be a bit more direct about its villains and players in the world than the Souls game. The trailer had the feel of the intro cinematic for the game to me, and From Soft has done that before. The Dark Souls 3 intro shows you all the Lords of Cinder you'll have to fight, although not all of what you see makes sense initially. And it's always a lady narrating to you about the world.

But I think what it's communicating about the game's world is a little different than what's come before.

From what I've seen of characters and their tone and how they were directed in the Elden Ring Network Test, they seem more....characterful? dramatic? than a lot of Soulsborne NPCs. Many of whom have this airy, dry conversational style. So with the writing and voice acting I've heard so far in ER and the way GRRM writes characters, I think the characters are going to be more of a feature of the game's story than we've seen. Instead of piecing their story together from 7 different lore bits on items and a single line of dialog here and there from NPCs that only makes sense in context, 20 hours after you beat the boss. It probably means more NPCs are going to spend time talking to you about stuff. But also...your foes talk to you now too. How many foes have you fought in Soulsborne games where they actually spoke to you, engaged you, instead of a) roaring or striking a pose then attacking or b) monologue for a bit? It's a pretty small list. Twin Princes. Sister Friede. Spear of the Church (barely.) Lawrence. Micolash. Lady Maria. There's a few more but by and large the foes you face don't have much to say to you.

I would not mind if they take a different cinematic approach in Elden Ring. I like From's narrative style in their other games, it's part of what makes them weird and quirky and mysterious...but lots of times in Dark Souls I'd reach a boss arena not really knowing who or what to expect, because the who's and why's of where you go in Souls games only truly comes later once you have absorbed some lore and gotten over just playing the game. The trailer dares to ask questions like "Who" and "Why" from the outset, which is something I think most people only really start coming to in their 2nd or 3rd playthroughs of the games. The details of people attached to the story in Souls games were their own puzzles to unravel. You only really learned about them AFTER you'd killed them sometimes. I'm kinda of dancing around that it's also a cultural thing, Western vs. Eastern styles in story style and delivery. I think Elden Ring is maybe going to lean more toward the West in how it portrays its villains and characters to players, and give more energy to building up these characters than previous games and be a bit more direct.

And that overall Elden Ring is thematically different from previous Soulsborne games. Yeah, you're still running through a world that's trashed and corrupted. Yeah, you're still put in a position to "set things right." But your reasons for doing so are different here. In previous games it was about duty by and large. The duty to renew the world, to hoont. Here, it's about birthrights, ambition and being the strongest. That kind of lends itself to a more personal relationship with your rivals. I admit, I got a bit of a shiver at how the trailer ended. You're going to die a lot in ER just like every other Souls game but thematically those deaths will have a different context. Soulsborne games have always been half a hero's journey and half a waking nightmare. You're cursed. You're dead. The world is gross and nasty and also dead. But you got your duty to fulfill. ER is like nah dawg. I'm taken over this place. This is my house now. Hail to the King baby.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2021, 01:51:23 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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nenjin

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Re: Oooohhhhhhh, Elden Ring. Story Trailer.
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2021, 08:05:44 pm »

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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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