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[Zaratustra]

Perhaps a way to assign garbage stockpiles to pits? The dorfs would have to understand not to jump down them when dumping stuff in them though.

[nihilocrat]

I don't see any problems at all with using ads to help support the game. I'm familiar with all sorts of free/open source projects that inject a tasteful amount of advertising on their site and I'm happy that this helps support them financially whether or not I or any other players decide to donate to the developers. A few Adsense ads combined with a single banner on the forums sounds pretty "tasteful" to me.

You could also go the "21st century shareware" route like UnReal World and Mount&Blade, which offer a very reasonable price for their games (about $20) and free upgrades for life, but still offer a time-limited/level-limited (respectively) version that give a very good idea of what the full game is like.

[nihilocrat]

quote:Originally posted by Gakidou:
<STRONG>

I am tempted to replace the dwarf face symbols with 矮, now. (Then again, if tilesets are ever added, I'll probably make a  Kanji or Chinese Ideogram tileset; what better way to learn the characters than by associating 象 with "OH SHI-! ELEPHANTS!")</STRONG>

Not to toot my own horn, but you might want to check out Liumang(or rather, 流&#27667 . I'll release a playable version once I have, well, a non-buggy, playable version.

[I3erent]

quote:Originally posted by nihilocrat:
<STRONG>

You could also go the "21st century shareware" route like UnReal World and Mount&Blade, which offer a very reasonable price for their games (about $20) and free upgrades for life, but still offer a time-limited/level-limited (respectively) version that give a very good idea of what the full game is like.</STRONG>

URW is 40 bucks for a lifetime membership and the development over there is slow even tho i loved the game for awhile i would much rather give toady 40 bucks the dev is happning daily here at df and he keeps us posted all the way. go toady!!!

damn i hope sami doesnt see this lol!!  if Adventure mode was like urw that would be cool i cant wait for toady to turn his attention that way tho it may be a long while ill wait!

[ April 23, 2007: Message edited by: berent ]

[ April 23, 2007: Message edited by: berent ]

[Gurney]

You could give people who pay/donate access to your daily builds and more input into the development process (private forum section?), while everyone else gets the stable version for free. That way you also get a community of testers who care enough about the game to pay for it.

[Xeirxes]

That introduces a whole lot of new effort for the Toadmeister, though, and I think that his time is best spent reading a single forum and building for his own purposes. Don't forget that compiling takes time too  

[Fieari]

The "pay for incremental builds" thing worked pretty well for Charlie "Flayra" Clevenger, for Natural Selection.

[Mechanoid]

#1. NS Blows, just play a StarCraft /WarCraft 3 UMS (use map settings) styled after 'whos the killer' or more simply AvP (2) instead.

#2. Shareware does not work as a marketing strategy for several reasons... "Missing files" can be downloaded or replaced. Time constraints can be circumvented by hacking the registry or computer clock. Missing features turn the "Shareware" into "Crippleware" which no one wants to play, etc etc.

#3. If it started free, keep it free. If it costs $ to play, keep it that way. The last thing you want is for players to feel cheated. That, and it makes little sense when you could simply copy + paste the game, and turn the duplicate into something that functions the same, but is more specific and enhanced then it's original design.

I'd pay (once!) to play an adventure /puzzle game set in a dwarven fortress and the like (huamn castle, elven tree fort, etc) but with better combat and environmental mechanics... Like the old roguelikes of yore, on steroids, with crack injected into it's eyeballs. Obviously having things DF could never really have; quick moving liquids, enhanced rock qualities (like pressure and such) and the ability to bend /break a randomly generated level to your will.
[Nothing like the game from which it spawned, so it warrants $ payment, but it's similar if not better in feel and play qualities.]

[ April 23, 2007: Message edited by: Mechanoid ]

[irmo]

quote:Originally posted by Zaratustra:
<STRONG>Perhaps a way to assign garbage stockpiles to pits? The dorfs would have to understand not to jump down them when dumping stuff in them though.</STRONG>

How about allowing stockpiles to be placed on bridges?  Then the dwarves don't have to understand anything.  Build a bridge over a deep pit, put a refuse pile on it, and when it starts to stink, retract the bridge.

[Core Xii]

There's no need to, as far as I understood, you can designate a dumping area over a pit.

Toady, are we able to mine away the mountain from the top? I'd like to make an atrium of some sorts inside my fort.

Also I was thinking about something green... could we please be able to plant grass? Something you'd only plant once and would sleep through winter.

[Mechanoid]

Technically the player should be able to carve a ramp /staircase into the cliff-face up to the top level, and then build a nice plateu fortress on top of the mountain...

Unless there's an indestructable ceiling above the highest set of rocks, and not sky... Which really wouldn't make much sense since the mountain shouldn't be able to extend beyond the sky...

[And grass would definitely be nice to plant! It'd give dwarves that like green a huge boost all the time. A benefit properly ballanced by the fact that you'd be letting rain and snow inside, as well as potential temperature changes...
And flying enemies.]

[Third edit -- when rewalling is put in, there should be an option to build floor tiles, too, that way if you screw up and dig a 'channel' where it isn't supposed to be, you can cover up your mistake]

[ April 24, 2007: Message edited by: Mechanoid ]

[Scratchmonkey]

Could somebody explain how, if aqueducts are scrapped, that we would have similar functionality with the new systems in place?

I trust Toady when he says that they can be replicated; I'm just not able to visualize how we would be able to do something like run magma over water or the like without aqueducts.

[Toady One]

Senso, thanks for hosting the wiki by the way.  I remember back when the game was released in August reading the thread where you said you'd set one up (I don't recall if it was SA or PA or maybe someplace else), and I was like, wow, cool!  Yeah, I'd also prefer to keep things ad-clean.  It's 'free money', sure, but there's the clutter and off-mission feel of it as well (although AdSense doesn't seem so bad, compared to popups and blaring sirens and your speakers yelling "CONGRATULATIONS! YOU WON A DVD PLAYER!" and stuff).  And yeah, I'll make sure to mention it to you if I need to try ads to make ends meet later on, rather than just letting B12 slide.  Thanks.

I'll have to see how to have refuse and chasm designations interact.  The current system is a little cumbersome.  Setting up something like defaults and also the custom stockpile interface over the pits might not be bad in the long run.

As I've said on a much older thread, I'm never going to charge for this or any other game.  Having to deal with irate customers and having to worry about piracy would make (the rest of) my hair fall out.  As it stands, I'm really only beholden to myself and the game, and everybody that wants to drop by can enjoy it while it's here.  Hopefully that will be a very long time.  I've been writing games for 20 years, and I'm not going anywhere as long as I can pay for it.

edit:

It'll take a bit of work to get stockpiles on bridges.  Buildings still can't stack in one map square.

There isn't a top to the mountain right now, but I'm thinking about how to set it up.  Having a vertical cliff face all the time isn't interesting.

The current aqueduct is in a sense a bridge with walls.  So once you've got rewall, you'd be able to combine bridges (or constructed floors) with walls to get the desired effect.  If rewall doesn't make it in, you can carve it out a passageway at a higher Z level.

[ April 24, 2007: Message edited by: Toady One ]

[ricree]

quote:Originally posted by Aquillion:
<STRONG>You need to sell DF swag, Toady!  Like...  I don't know, someone suggested an "In ur fortress, killin your dorfs" shirt or something for elephants.

...really, I suppose lacking graphics does cause problems for the merchandising thing.  Um, maybe a shirt or mug or somesuch with an image of the ascii-art dwarven miner, the one whose picture graces the Wiki?</STRONG>

Personally, I think that merchandising isn't a bad idea.  It has worked in a number of contexts online.  For example, most people I know of who are able to work on webcomics full time use merchandise to make up a large portion of their income.  It certainly seems more likely to work than a pure donation approach, anyways.  Yeah, the ascii nature of the game makes it a little harder, but a simple graphic and a good slogan are all it really takes.

Personally, I think that webcomics could present a good source of inspiration to for Toady to model his business off of if he wants to work on this full time and keep it free.

Also, ads need not be particularly obtrusive as long as they are used sparingly and only from companies that use more tastefull ads than the whole flashing "you've won a TV!!!" ads.  I doubt they'd be enough in and of themselves, but they could provide a nice supplement.

[Casey]

I don't really see the problem with merchandising: get Toady's blessing, make money off the idea, then donate the proceeds.  Zero risk and minimal time invested for Toady, mo' money for development.