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Author Topic: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep  (Read 1399 times)

nocpur

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Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« on: August 18, 2021, 08:20:56 pm »

I am trying to make a creature that can knock out forgotten beasts, even the web-shooters, in order to trap them.

I understand that forgotten beasts have [NOSTUN] and therefore can't be rendered unconscious, but I am doing some testing with a combination of both
         [CE_DROWSINESS:SEV:10000:PROB:100:START:50:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
         [CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS:SEV:10000:PROB:100:START:50:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
and I have copied over the raws of a forgotten beast to test it on. It does get "very drowsy" and occasionally flashes Z/sleeping, but only in arena mode it seems. I can verify that the syndrome does work on other creatures and knocks them unconscious and asleep just fine. When the beast is placed over a cage trap in fortress mode, though, it does not get triggered and I don't see it falling asleep.

I thought that untrappable things (ignoring webs) can be trapped if they fall unconscious over a cage trap. Is that only unconscious, or does being asleep count too?

I'm beginning to think that this just doesn't work. Any further ideas to trap web immune forgotten beasts?

I am determined to grow my collection.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2021, 08:23:16 pm by nocpur »
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Moeteru

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 07:10:39 am »

I tried to do this once without any modding.
I happened to catch a FB which had a gas attack which caused sleep/unconsciousness, so naturally I tried to use it to stun a webbing FB on top of a cage trap.
After several months I gave up because the webbing FB had the "drowsy" status effect but never lost consciousness.
Interestingly though, as soon as it stepped off the cage traps it did fall asleep.

I wonder if creatures are naturally more willing to go to sleep on a rough floor than on top of a trap. It might be code which Toady put in to help protect your sleep-deprived dwarves from deciding to take a nap on top of a weapon trap.
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Mobbstar

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 10:10:34 am »

It might be code which Toady put in to help protect your sleep-deprived dwarves from deciding to take a nap on top of a weapon trap.

In that case, would it be possible to push/drop a sleeping FB on a cage trap? Perhaps using water?

nocpur

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2021, 04:01:47 am »

Ahhh, I like your thinking. I’ll do some testing tomorrow and see if this works.

Edit: Nah. I don't think water can push them.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2021, 05:10:58 pm by nocpur »
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2021, 08:02:26 am »

You know you can remove the NOSTUN tag with CE_REMOVE_TAG, right?  That should render them susceptible to unconsciousness just like any other creature.

Encrtia

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2021, 07:00:38 am »

How'd ya do that Indigo? Which file am I looking at?

Personally, I was disappointed that I couldn't, so I just teleported the web-spinners after going through all the techniques over here, but now they cause FPS / instability issues, so would be handy to just shove 'em in a cage.
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DwarfStar

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2021, 03:36:04 pm »

What I do to trap web spinners is build 3-tile long hallway with stairs up at both ends, with hatches over both stairs. Just lure the FB to go down that hallway, lock both hatches, and it's trapped. I believe this avoids FPS issues but I might not have noticed. I usually have a whole row of these traps prepared once I've breached the caverns. If you have planned ahead, you could set up bridges, fortifications, and bait on one or both sides and you'd have either a silk farm or a webbed cage hall to trap future (non-webbing) FBs with.

The silk from FBs isn't worth much, but I do like how the name of the FB carries along as you make clothing out of it. Kinda like a brand name.
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Encrtia

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2021, 04:26:00 pm »

Yeah, when you have 150 FBs just standing in one spot, they do haha

I noticed an immediate reduction in CTDs once I culled 75% of them.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2021, 09:11:57 am by Encrtia »
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Moeteru

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2021, 08:02:29 am »

What I do to trap web spinners is build 3-tile long hallway with stairs up at both ends, with hatches over both stairs. Just lure the FB to go down that hallway, lock both hatches, and it's trapped. I believe this avoids FPS issues but I might not have noticed. I usually have a whole row of these traps prepared once I've breached the caverns. If you have planned ahead, you could set up bridges, fortifications, and bait on one or both sides and you'd have either a silk farm or a webbed cage hall to trap future (non-webbing) FBs with.

The silk from FBs isn't worth much, but I do like how the name of the FB carries along as you make clothing out of it. Kinda like a brand name.
In the current version you don't even need to use hatches. Non-army building destroyers are broken so even a simple rock/glass door is sufficient to contain any FB. I haven't tested with wooden doors but I wouldn't be at all surprised if those worked too. Pairs of doors with a guard animal are also a very effective way to make a werebeast-proof entrance.

I tend to use both doors and raising bridges to contain FBs, mainly because I don't want to abuse too many exploits. I think using bridges may also have FPS benefits though, because I've noticed there's a difference in behaviour in my silk farms. If there are only locked doors between the webber and the bait then it will fire webs almost constantly, but if it's confined by raised bridges or walls then it will fire webs much less frequently (but still frequently enough to massively overproduce clothing). I think this difference must have something to do with the frequency with which pathability checks are made (presumably ignoring locked doors) vs. the frequency of line-of-sight checks. Presumably the latter are more costly and therefore happen less frequently.
When a pathability check succeeds the game presumably has to iterate along the path checking for locked doors which, if 150 FBs were all doing it every few ticks, could probably cause a bit of lag.

When I make FB silk farms I usually try to pick an FB with a short name because it's very annoying to have an extra ~50 characters of irrelevant information stuck on the front of every item name.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Putting forgotten beasts to sleep
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2021, 12:46:45 pm »

How'd ya do that Indigo? Which file am I looking at?

You said you were experimenting with a syndrome to knock them out.  Add it to whatever syndrome you are trying to use to knock them unconscious (attack interaction, toxic spit, whatever).  This should make a syndrome that knocks out any creature, even if they normally cannot be stunned.

Code: [Select]
         [CE_DROWSINESS:SEV:10000:PROB:100:START:50:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
         [CE_UNCONSCIOUSNESS:SEV:10000:PROB:100:START:50:PEAK:1000:END:2000]
         [CE_REMOVE_TAG:NO_SLEEP:NOSTUN:START:50:END:2000]