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Author Topic: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?  (Read 925 times)

protopulse

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Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« on: September 16, 2021, 05:51:11 pm »

I posted on reddit weekly questions thread but I get the sense the community is more active here.

The repeater is the one on here. http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:Larix/MPL/3 called bridge repeater.

I'm having trouble seeing how this repeater is supposed to work, since there is no animation and no screenshot of the z-1 level or z+1 level.

I'm guessing there must be an impulse ramp somewhere in there...

His description says:

'A curiosity, a powerless repeater sending a signal every ~205 steps which can be used to operate a constantly opening and closing bridge. The only operational pit is the one to the north, a looped-ramp pit (ramps SW and NW) with the northern ramp covered with a hatch cover linked to the output plate. As long as the hatch cover is open, the cart will cycle through the pit and the flat half-circle directly west of it. Once the hatch closes - one hundred steps after the cart went over the pressure plate - the cart will pass over the hatch, bump into the wall and move incredibly slowly to the south, fall into the bunker pit, leave at a slightly more sustainable speed and touch the plate again.'

So the weird looking c is a floor hatch? What purpose does it serve?

How does the cart travel? What is an 'operational pit'? A 'bunker pit'? Where are the SW ramp or NW ramp? What is hidden beneath the minecart?

I appreciate people for sharing their designs since it's otherwise very annoying trying to design a cycle with x tick loops. But it's so difficult to follow their schematics.

My design so far. https://imgur.com/a/Xfecr2a

Not understanding how the middle circuit works. https://imgur.com/a/CgSJN12 is how I'm visualizing the minecart travels. What does the hatch do? What is it covering?

And if anyone has tips in general for how to design your own repeater, please share or refer me to a thread to learn more.

« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 12:41:18 am by protopulse »
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DwarfStar

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Re: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2021, 10:05:48 pm »

I guess it probably runs based on the impulse ramp concept, which I can’t help you with. I usually build repeaters with minecarts on powered rollers, which are easier for me to understand. That way I can tune the roller speed to dial in the repeat frequency. So that’s my suggestion: try a ring of powered rollers.
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protopulse

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Re: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2021, 10:40:14 pm »

I understand impulse ramps, so that's not the issue here. All they are is a way to generate momentum by tricking the game into thinking the minecart is rolling downhill.

I made these a while back, using impulse ramps.

https://giphy.com/gifs/Jqm8CWdnynUpODp2Vw

It's not the power generation that's an issue for me with this schematic. It's that I feel like I'm trying to solve a jigsaw puzzle without all of the pieces.

Let's assume that there's power in this system. I still don't understand why there is an up-ramp, or what that central circuit/hatch is for, what is beneath the hatch, or where the cart is going. I'd be happy to change my setup so that it uses rollers, but then I can't be assured that the circuit completes in 205 ticks. And it has to be 205 ticks since it takes 200 ticks for the bridge to retract and then reset.

Thanks for replying all the same. If someone knows a way to ask Larix directly, let me know and I can try that too.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2021, 10:42:24 pm by protopulse »
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2021, 01:19:39 am »

Have you considered sending him a PM?
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Really hoping somebody puts this in their signature.

Moeteru

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Re: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2021, 07:11:02 am »

I think I might understand how this works.

On z-1 beneath the hatch is a ramp with a SW track corner on it. The other ramp next to the hatch has a NW track corner. Together with the two adjacent tracks on z0 they form a small circle. Because of the checkpoint effect the cart will naturally accelerate clockwise round this 4 track circle.

The ramp at the bottom right corner of the image probably just goes into a single tile pit. I would guess there's a straight track section carved on the ramp there. The cart goes down the ramp, bounces off the wall, and somehow leaves with more speed than it entered. This is the only bit I'm not certain of.
I don't think there's anything dug out or built on z+1. The ramp in the top right corner is just an impulse ramp with nothing above it.
The track beneath the minecart in the diagram is just a straight NS track.

The purpose of the hatch is to switch the cart between looping clockwise round the small circle when its open, and going clockwise round the outer track loop when it is closed. When the cart passes over the pressure plate it opens the hatch which gives it ~100 ticks around the small loop, then the hatch closes allowing it to escape to the outer track where it must spend another ~100 ticks making its way to the pressure plate and back to the small loop.

I don't have time to draw diagrams right now, but if my description is unclear then let me know and I'll post some pictures later.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 10:30:59 am by Moeteru »
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protopulse

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Re: Help understanding Larix 205 tick bridge repeater?
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2021, 11:19:06 am »

@Cat I've already messaged him. But his last post on here was sometime last year and I don't think it links to his email, so god knows when he'll see it.

@Moeteru So, good news is the thing runs now. Bad news is the cycle is 58 ticks...so the repeater might as well not be there. The bridge is constantly down.

If I leave the hatch up, then it does a 58 tick loop.

https://giphy.com/gifs/yUU86NYjcoieiQnalY

If I leave the hatch open, it just cycles in the middle and nothing happens.

https://giphy.com/gifs/bkE1wpTORL895aa7jJ

Edit: I just realized I forgot to account for a bit of your description though. Let me try linking the hatch with the pressure plate instead of just the bridge.

And voila! I think it works. o_o

https://giphy.com/gifs/xR7uGhhxPtwWUmemQG

I really did not expect the circuit to work this way but it's really quite clever. Lemme count those ticks (I know it's going to be close just because of the way the circuit is designed though).

I counted 206 ticks. It works. :)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:40:07 am by protopulse »
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