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Author Topic: Dwarven mental degeneration.  (Read 445 times)

Urist_McUrist

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Dwarven mental degeneration.
« on: January 11, 2022, 07:52:06 pm »

I dont really know how to go about figuring this out. Its not so much as i want to ask a question, as i want to vent about it. But im currently in my longest lived most successful fort of all time, my first fort since a great number of version changes as well. We are currently 8 years in, at 41 dwarves (population limits set and slowly raised because my computer is ancient tech and im running at 12 (6) fps already). And I'm having weird, "issues".

I have one angry dwarf. Upset because they are apparently traumatized by seeing a kobold corpse, at least 2 years ago. They are "constantly in a state of internal rage". And their actions are very strange now. Every 15ish real world minutes, they will be trying to attend a meeting with my expedition leader to yell at them, but they will wander into EVERY side room on the way to do so instead of walking straight down the hall. And right before they reach the office where the leader has been patiently waiting, they both decide to go do something else, EVERY time. Or if the leader isnt in the office, they will literally run circles around eachother like the leader is trying to avoid them. What the hell?

Also, the angry dwarf, would really like to pray. Even when i disable all their jobs they will not pray to all their gods, while all my other dwarves will. And they are "angry about dwelling on having an argument ", but instead of satisfying their need to pray, they go socializing and argue more apparently. This very same dwarf also absolutely refused to equip gauntlets for a loooong time, just them, no one else. What?

It almost feels like the code for this one dwarf is just breaking down or something. They arnt insane or berserk, but their pathing is beyond fucked up and they dont fulfill their own needs when there is ample opportunity to. Is this a known issue? My system cant run very well at this point so this dwarfs code has become corrupted? I dont understand what the issues are being caused by.

On a separate note, i have a confession. I have never breached ANY caverns. Where are they? Im currently 20 levels down and still havent reached the first cavern on a generic generated world. And in all my years playing, ive never reached any caverns. Currently my efforts to delve deeper are on hold as ive shut down all military squads to try and figure out why this one dwarf is apparently insane without actually being insane.

Its frustrating me very greatly right now. This fortress is exceptionally wealthy and well built and every is very happy, except psycho mcurist here. Ive had no deaths except a single war dog that died of old age, and is now properly entombed, not even psycho mcurists pet. I have a small mass of grizzly bears now, a giant dingo, a giant grizzly and i did have a marksdwarf squad and speardwarf squad fully functional, armed, armored, and training properly. Except Mcpsycho urists refusal to put gauntlets on. (I even destroyed ALL gloves and mittens, but that wasnt even the issue to start with, im just trying everything.)

Things are just weird in this fort and i dont know why. I built a huge awesome supreme reservoir and well with soap stockpile, ive never seen anyone ever use it at all yet. Its even a meeting hall, and only the liason visits it. Dunno why.

But yea... kinda frustrated. I have masterwork silver statues, steel armory, smoothed everything, everyone has a 3x3 fully equipped room. I have over a thousand lavish masterwork meals and as many and varied booze supplies, i trade with dwarves, men, and elves to such an extent they dont even have anything i need anymore, so i just give them hundreds of thousands of dwarf bucks in silver statues in trade just to clear out stockpiles and keep my dwarves from being bored.

This is dwarven utopia. Is that the issue? Is this a case of a "utopian decay"? Should i cage trap the wild her of yaks and just make the crazy dwarf fight them all at once naked?

I feel like i am becoming psycho mcurist...
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2022, 01:49:46 am »

Might your angry dwarf be restricted to a burrow? Players often get tripped up by that, and I can't think of anything else that would cause pathing weirdness for only a single citizen.

Things are just weird in this fort and i dont know why. I built a huge awesome supreme reservoir and well with soap stockpile, ive never seen anyone ever use it at all yet. Its even a meeting hall, and only the liason visits it. Dunno why.
Likewise, this sounds like a burrow-issue; the liason, not being a citizen, would not be subject to whatever movement restrictions you might have put in place

On a separate note, i have a confession. I have never breached ANY caverns. Where are they? Im currently 20 levels down and still havent reached the first cavern on a generic generated world. And in all my years playing, ive never reached any caverns. Currently my efforts to delve deeper are on hold as ive shut down all military squads to try and figure out why this one dwarf is apparently insane without actually being insane.
20 levels down really isn't that far; just designate a staircase reaching as far downwards as possible, and your miners should soon breach cavern #1. Granted, it's possible to generate a world without caverns, but you'd need to go out of your way to do that
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 02:05:27 am by Urlance Woolsbane »
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2022, 05:02:48 am »

No burrows in play at all, though shortly after posting i noticed someone must have finally used the well with soap, because there was kobold blood and bars of soap on the grates around the well, though i somehow missed anyone actually doing it, and i have no idea where the kobold blood came from since i haven't killed one for several in game years now, they keep running away too fast. But yea, i havent made any burrows at all in this fort.

And with caverns i just thought id be hitting the top layer by now, i think the wiki says its usually only 10-11 layers down usually. I play very cautiously and probably overly meticulously and safely, if i designated a deep staircase, will the little bearded blighters be smart enough to stop if they reach the cavern, or will they just keep going? I think my main fear is breaching, being unprepared, and theres some harbinger of doom just waiting immediately outside where i breach, so im digging a spiral ramp staircase separately from my fortress, and airlocking with several doors on every level, so i can hopefully at least forbid a ton of doors and buy myself time incase something is coming for me. Gotta get my squads back together before i keep going down also.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2022, 05:13:46 am »

And with caverns i just thought id be hitting the top layer by now, i think the wiki says its usually only 10-11 layers down usually. I play very cautiously and probably overly meticulously and safely, if i designated a deep staircase, will the little bearded blighters be smart enough to stop if they reach the cavern, or will they just keep going? I think my main fear is breaching, being unprepared, and theres some harbinger of doom just waiting immediately outside where i breach, so im digging a spiral ramp staircase separately from my fortress, and airlocking with several doors on every level, so i can hopefully at least forbid a ton of doors and buy myself time incase something is coming for me. Gotta get my squads back together before i keep going down also.
Often dwarves dig into empty space, on discovering a cavern, and have to be directed to dig on a tile where they can actually continue the staircase. That said, the game alerts you the moment you breach a cavern, so you could simply erase all the remaining designated staircase tiles, when that happens.

From what you've described of your fort, I think you're well prepared for anything the caverns can throw at you. You've been attacked by titans, I assume, and those are fairly similar to forgotten beasts, which are the worst things to come out of there
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DwarfUli

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2022, 07:14:23 am »

On a separate note, i have a confession. I have never breached ANY caverns. Where are they? Im currently 20 levels down and still havent reached the first cavern on a generic generated world. And in all my years playing, ive never reached any caverns. Currently my efforts to delve deeper are on hold as ive shut down all military squads to try and figure out why this one dwarf is apparently insane without actually being insane.

I had the same thing, wondering where all those amazing caverns are at. Turns out they are deeper and I was never going deep enough. 20 levels can easily not be enough. I think my current world has a cavern going from -60z to some insane -100z+. I make sure that I dig multiple staircases down to levels my dorfs use for efficiency but once I start digging for caverns, I only do 1 staircase down until I hit a cave, so I can cap it off quickly with a floodgate/hatch or something I can control with a lever up topside. The cave i found yesterday has a ton of emeralds in it, which is my favorite stone, so I was all giddy with excitement about that. Maybe if I find enough I can build the Emerald City down there.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 07:17:40 am by DwarfUli »
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Mobbstar

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2022, 07:39:39 am »

If you haven't already, consult a Dwarf Therapist to help diagnose the problems you've described.

Also, the angry dwarf, would really like to pray. Even when i disable all their jobs they will not pray to all their gods, while all my other dwarves will. And they are "angry about dwelling on having an argument ", but instead of satisfying their need to pray, they go socializing and argue more apparently.

You could set a burrow and assign that one single dwarf to it.  Include the temple(s), some food stockpiles, maybe a workshop to grant the satisfaction of labour, but exclude problematic areas such as the meeting areas.  Think of it as a "spa sabbatical".

On a separate note, i have a confession. I have never breached ANY caverns.

You make it sound like a kind of dwarven virginity.  :P

(It is possible you dug past a cavern layer on accident.  The world has "pillars" upholding the surface, where caverns almost never cross your path.)


This is dwarven utopia. Is that the issue? Is this a case of a "utopian decay"? Should i cage trap the wild her of yaks and just make the crazy dwarf fight them all at once naked?

If all peaceful methods fail, it might be more reasonable (and significantly more fun) to wall the dwarf into a quarry with some food supplies and a pick and force them to find caverns.  Who knows, maybe the satisfaction of mining or the inevitable battle experience upon breaching cavern will recover their mental state.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2022, 07:45:19 am by Mobbstar »
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2022, 11:39:52 am »

I might try the "spa burrow" idea if they get any more angry thoughts. Unfortunately, my computer has some pretty extreme compatibility issues, Im not sure if dwarf therapist will run on my system, though i havent tried for a long time to remember if that one also doesnt work. I know i cant use the LNP, and i think TWBT also doesnt work. I am sort of a neo-luddite anti social woodsman, and i built this computer in highschool with nothing but free parts and pirated software, i only recently resurrected it from a decade of giving me the BSOD. I dont even have a mouse for it anymore (who needs it, keyboard commands ftw).

I am always worried I'm going to go past a cavern layer, and make my first cavern experience way more difficult by breaching much deeper than intended, ao my staircase down tends to spiral down about a 1010 area.

In years past i have faced titans, but this fort is strangely peaceful. I get kobold ambushes, but my chained up giant dingo and giant war grizzly scare them away. And before i disbanded my military the only action they saw has been some extremely obnoxious raccoons, a couple yaks, a couger, and many boars.

Its an interesting world around me, the tile this fort is on isnt sinister, but we are at the foot of a single sinister peak, i wasnt sure if i would get any effects from being so close to it, but so I haven't. But my civilization is at peace with everyone except some far flung goblins which apparently are too far away to come say hello, and one elven civilization, which is very near to me, but never come to see me. Though im also VERY close to several other elven civilizations that are at peace with me and bring me wonderful giant beasts to trade. All humans are at peace with us also. And so far, nearly 10 years in this fort, no titans have come yet either. I stopped world gen at year 125 (my computer weeps if i make it go much more). I believe we are still in an age of myth. I also think across the continent is a tower, but like the goblins, too far to bother me (yet?).

Appreciate the input fellow kneeless ones. I will see if the therapist runs on my computer today.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Shzar

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2022, 03:36:49 pm »

On a separate note, i have a confession. I have never breached ANY caverns.

Be warned, your poor FPS will likely worsen after breaching the cavern. All the extra critters and twisty hallways make for complicated pathfinding.

You could set a burrow and assign that one single dwarf to it. Include the temple(s), some food stockpiles, maybe a workshop to grant the satisfaction of labour, but exclude problematic areas such as the meeting areas. Think of it as a "spa sabbatical".

Thanks for this suggestion. I currently have a dwarf who is "badly distracted" after being unable to pray to so-and-so, even though I have a fine temple to the deity in question. Burrows never crossed my mind.
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Paaaad

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2022, 08:55:56 pm »

One possibility to keep in mind: In my current fort, the very first stairwell I dug, destined to be my central staircase, runs from the surface all the way down to the Magma Sea, at 3x3, without breaching any caves at all. It's in rather large pillars the whole way down. Had to dig a few more exploratory shafts specifically to find the caverns.
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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2022, 09:18:46 pm »

I seem to remember pillars are more likely if your embarkation tiles are closer to the edge of a map square. The caverns tend to be towards the more middle of the map square. I tend to find caverns are rarely above about 50 levels down, myself, but perhaps I've just been lucky that way. I love the caverns, I do purposefully dig to find them, then wall them off for use.
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Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2022, 11:25:00 pm »

I finally hit the first cavern! At layer 24. I could have missed it if i wasnt digging such a large spiral, its got a pretty huge pillar right in the center. Its also pretty boring in there. I was hoping to reveal some flux, or see some interesting stuff. So far ive got normal cave spiders, a draltha passed through, and lots of troglodytes. Building a secure entrance area right now. No vegetation in this cavern either. Just loads of the same stones and gems ive been seeing the whole time.

Also, i didnt do anything special for the psycho dwarf, but they finally got over it thankfully.

Oooo, while typing this a giant bat flew in and started messin up the trogs. Weird fight, this giant bat is apparently a professional wrestler, more interested in takedowns and tosses than biting.

Got a few monster hunters chilling in my private tavern now also, which i didnt expect, but as long as they behave themselves and arnt werebeasts or thieves i guess its fine. Been a no visitors allowed fort til they showed up.

Before I re-breach the cavern after i get my airlock built, gonna station my ten speardwarves down there, hopefully their steel armor and spears, and a couple years of training and killing boars and dingos will stand up to trogs and giant bats.

If there was any vegetation down there, id pasture my giant war elephant down there also.

I kinda wish someone would seige me already. Maybe ill send a raiding part out to the nearby hostile elf civilization which has attacked my civilization pretty close to me, but hasnt bothered me yet. I've never dabbled with the raiding system yet either.

All is going very well these days though.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

IndigoFenix

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #11 on: Today at 01:53:40 am »

I don't know about the rest of the issues, but "constantly in a state of internal rage" is just his personality and has nothing to do with his actual stress level. He'll basically react to almost every negative event with anger.

I suggest putting him in the military. Dwarves with angry personalities enter combat rages more frequently, and you'll want him to be stress-resistant because he will be likely to throw tantrums otherwise. (Do note, however, that if he goes insane, it will almost definitely be of the berserk variety.)

Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #12 on: Today at 10:52:05 am »

Im glad people like to help, but i would live it if you woukdnt assume no one knows what they are talking about when they post. Thanks.

He absolutely was stressed. Like i said. Almost like im not a complete idiot. Beyond that, i dont care what you had to say past assuming i only based my post off his personality trait and not him being stressed.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.

Urist_McUrist

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Re: Dwarven mental degeneration.
« Reply #13 on: Today at 10:57:04 am »

Im making a new rule for my posts. If you are going to just assume the issue isnt what i said and explained, you arnt allowed to comment anymore. Take that unhelpful crap somewhere else. No shit, his personality being in a state of constant rage means he reacts to negative things with anger? Wow, who woulda guessed it!?

He was still actually stressed. And after having done nothing special with him, he is still no longer stressed.

Now im the one in a state of constant internal rage. So, no more dumbass replies. Just stop. When someone has an issue they clearly explain, stop assuming they were just mistaken.

Does this upset you? Then dont reply.
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I am an angry person. It's true. Anti-social misanthrope with a complete lack of an ability to tolerate stupidity. So if you say something stupid to me, or try and insinuate I must just be misunderstanding or doing something wrong, I will probably yell at you. Always take me at my word when I explain something. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm simply being honest, in a world where the average intellect is potato. Unhelpful patronizing "help", deserves a snappy retort. Grow some thicker skin.