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Author Topic: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion  (Read 3240 times)

RoseHeart

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Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« on: February 12, 2022, 05:35:05 pm »

Use Gamer's Block to get help with your game.
Use The Forum Game List to find or share games.

For debates, meta, and everything else about forum games, you may discuss them here.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2022, 04:57:18 am by roseheart »
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Maximum Spin

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2022, 06:35:15 pm »

Topic for discussion: Did it need to be a separate thread or was it fine as one thread?
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ConscriptFive

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2022, 07:25:25 pm »

It's okay, I have a diagnosable medical condition where I find the taboo of multiple threads stupid.

Iris

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2022, 08:58:41 pm »

On the one hand, if we must have this discussion, I'd prefer it to be here than clogging up another thread. On the other hand, why would we ever have anything meta to discuss?
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

ConscriptFive

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2022, 09:26:56 pm »

If you could sit with kings and paupers like me, you'd know better.  We're in the business of collecting and dispersing truth here.

MeimieFan88

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #5 on: February 12, 2022, 10:29:20 pm »

Maybe we need a Forum Games & Roleplaying Drama Thread XD

In seriousness though I think having a thread like this is nice. I actually had more thoughts regarding the conversation on forum games becoming more of an "industry" but didn't want to post due to not wanting to continue to derail a thread that was meant for game design. It's nice to have a place to talk about these things, however fanciful the notions might be. As well as just general chat regarding forum games.

I think a lot of us here are pretty passionate about forum games and I'm a big supporter of people being able to do what they love for a living. I dream of a world where such is possible with forum games. They really do have a unique value to offer. But perhaps forum games / roleplaying just haven't developed anywhere close to that extent yet. The world has really yet to see a forum game / roleplay become something recognized and appreciated on a massive / global scale (as far as I know). But I feel like the potential could be there. And I think the strength of forum games actually lies in the aspect of many minds being able to come together to create something wonderfully absurd.

I don't know how relevant of a topic this is really but it does make for an interesting conversation, IMO, if only to discuss the state of modern civilization pertaining to the value and sustainability of creative activities. Anyway yeah just some rambling thoughts~
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IamanElfCollaborator

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #6 on: February 12, 2022, 10:42:10 pm »

Honestly, I get wanting to make forum games a thing in that sense. It'd make my life significantly easier if running FEFs was enough for a sustainable living wage. Definitely would make back the money I've spent on buying mapping resources for making maps and NPCs :P

My concern is trying to force it when there isn't the interest or the sustainability for such an activity, or talking down to those who disagree that it should be there already. There is obvious interest in compensating creators for it (piecewise and a few others have a Patreon) but those are entirely optional things rather than given for the services rendered by those GMs, a way of showing appreciation to these people for their passion and work as it were by their players.

Moreover, this is also a free forum for a free game (albeit one you can buy on Steam if you feel like supporting Toady). It feels just a tad bit crass to ask money for us here making forum games when the guy who made this entire forum possible lives off donations and has never asked for money in return.

Maximum Spin

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2022, 10:49:26 pm »

Deep down, I just don't believe people other than me deserve money, honestly.
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Iris

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2022, 11:25:41 pm »

The question here, ultimately, is "why would you want that?".

Personally, if I took money for forum games, I'd never be able to get something done. I do this for fun and as a creative outlet, and having that pressure would totally kill my ability to write.
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

Man of Paper

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2022, 11:29:05 pm »

If we're going to circle back to the monetization topic again since that's all that rosehearts threads reduce to anyways, lemme say that I would never ask nor expect any form of payment from my players. Everything I do is voluntary, they didn't hire me, and all the work I do is complimentary to all the work they do in turn. As was touched on in...every topic this gets brought up in, the players often have just as much power to control the narrative as the GM does. The only way things would be fair is, again this was stated the last time this was brought up, there was an audience willing to shell out the beans to all parties involved.

As for other topics of discussion, I think people shouldn't edit posts after locking topics to take shots at fellow forum-goers. I also think people who throw fits like that should get a temp ban to enforce their repeated statements of taking a break, but I also don't want to bother Toady with roseheart's bullshit.

And as for an on-topic discussion, I'm not actually sure what's supposed to fall into this thread that doesn't fit the other threads that don't really get used much. If we have a thread for game creation and discussion and a very, very, very rarely used thread that lists a small number of games (because you can tell if a game is alive by, uh, looking at the forum, don't need a google doc), then what do we talk about here?

Other than monetizing our free time that is.

 
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MeimieFan88

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2022, 11:39:12 pm »

The question here, ultimately, is "why would you want that?".

Personally, if I took money for forum games, I'd never be able to get something done. I do this for fun and as a creative outlet, and having that pressure would totally kill my ability to write.
The same reason why anyone aspires to be a professional artist/creative. Wanting to make their passion the focus of their life, and not have to do something else primarily for sustenance. It's definitely a long-shot with forum games but ultimately it is a creative endeavor not entirely unlike being a writer or any other type of creative. The main difference is that forum games and roleplaying is strictly collaborative, so it is of paramount importance, as I think most of us agree, that everyone involved is compensated fairly.
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Thou art the very love with which I love thee.
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Iris

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2022, 12:14:20 am »

It would be amazing if I could focus on my writing and games full time - think of how much I'd be able to get done! - but it's simply not practical. Honestly, even though I've been told I'm a good writer, I wouldn't even accept money for that: I don't think I'm that good, and deadlines have a way of destroying my ability to get things done. Ultimately, I think this is just wishful thinking.
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Quote from: AseaHeru (on Discord), Monday, June 20, 2022 10:41 PM
I still want the D. The D is love, the D is life. The D is bully.
Rewind, can't keep going
My mind keeps replaying
That night when we dove in
But now I'm sinking

MeimieFan88

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2022, 02:10:37 am »

There's certainly nothing wrong with doing creative activities purely as a hobby. That's how forum games / roleplaying are for me, and I doubt it will ever be anything more than that. I'm simply in support of pursuing one's passions as a possible career (and in fact that's what I'm doing, with my music). Anything that brings value to the world deserves a kind of support in return (and often times that support will be naturally established by those who can enjoy said value, in one way or another). Anyway the topic may be getting a little too broad at this point.
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NUKE9.13

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2022, 03:46:00 am »

See, here's the thing. Nobody's actually stopping anyone from trying to make money from forum games. No, calling someone foolish for suggesting it isn't stopping them.

In fact, it occurred to me that people have made money from forum games. MSPA started as an ISG. The ones before Problem Sleuth happened on a forum, iirc, and Problem Sleuth was essentially run as one. Even the very beginnings (and some intermissions) of Homestuck were, and it always maintained the veneer (with the >_ at the bottom of every page). Andrew Hussie made a living out of it. So if you have a large enough audience, you too could start your own website, put up ads, sell merch, and not know how to satisfactorily end your magnum opus.

I wouldn't want to, though. Being paid for your hobby might sound nice on the surface, but a job's a job. And a freelance job is a big risk.
For example, my sister is a photographer. She loves photography (and puts a lot more work & skill into it than I put into forum games). She deserves to get paid for it, and she does. Usually. But sometimes she gets a call; "Oh hey, we want you to work for twice as many hours, but we can't increase the budget. But you'll be working with [celebrity], so think of the exposure!". She did the math; after the cost of equipment, she'd be working for less than minimum wage. So now she can either accept this terrible offer (and be miserable doing her hobby), or reject it (and earn nothing, because she probably can't find another job that quickly).
The same risks would apply to a professional forum-gamer. "Oh hey, you didn't get as many views this month, and now you can't pay rent." "Oh hey, people didn't like the latest update so a bunch cancelled their patreon subscriptions, so now you can either cave to financial pressure and change your art, or fail to pay rent."

Note that even if it isn't your main source of income, the same issues can apply on a smaller scale. Having a donate link that earns you a few bucks every now and again is fine and all, but I wouldn't want the pressure it would create- "I got a bunch of donations for this update... I have to make sure the next one is as good, otherwise I'm ripping off those folks that donated" "Nobody has donated to me in months... I guess that means I'm not making good stuff any more".
Also, it could create pressure for viewers; "I really liked this update... now I feel like I have to donate"
« Last Edit: February 13, 2022, 03:47:37 am by NUKE9.13 »
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MeimieFan88

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Re: Forum Games & Roleplaying General Discussion
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2022, 04:43:13 am »

We are getting into a very broad topic now which borders on life / career advice / personal philosophy, and without getting too deep into it I'll just say that ultimately the drive to create has to come from within, rather than be externally motivated. So its entirely understandable that entwining one's passions with one's financial needs can create tensions between the internal and external. Everyone's situation is going to be different so you kind of have to decide for yourself these things and what makes sense for you.

To get a little more on-topic with regards to forum games, the basic point I wanted to make earlier was that there isn't really a critical difference between forum games and other art forms where professionals do exist, so a career in forum games doesn't seem entirely impossible of an idea (and apparently it already exists, as Nuke mentioned in their examples). How feasible it really is right now is another consideration though.
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Thou art the very love with which I love thee.
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