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[Neonivek]

Well, if there's such a thing as a "average" build, use that instead.

There isn't. People can say things like "oh a sane gm wouldn't allow that" but in reality every game is different and has different expectations for power and different appropriate things. Everything appropriate in some game and there isn't really an "average".

Yeah but games have a general IDEA of how powerful players are.

When a GM allows a wizard to blow up a country because "Well Anti-matter can be a plant material" they are clearly fudging things against the intent of the books... Which Rule 0 allows, but yeah.

[Criptfeind]

Sure? I wouldn't do that in my game but if that sorta game I don't see the issue with that. There are ways to blow up countries with magic though that I would allow in my game. So it's not even that far off track. Just a difference in level requirements.

I'm not sure you can really say that there's a general idea of power when you're trying to place the line somewhere between housecat and destroy a country. That's a pretty large area.

[Neonivek]

Sure? I wouldn't do that in my game but if that sorta game I don't see the issue with that. There are ways to blow up countries with magic though that I would allow in my game. So it's not even that far off track. Just a difference in level requirements.

I'm not sure you can really say that there's a general idea of power when you're trying to place the line somewhere between housecat and destroy a country. That's a pretty large area.

If we are excluding DM fiats... Then that area is significantly smaller.

If we are including DM fiats then this question is moot... All games players can have the powers of God.

[Criptfeind]

I don't get your point. With or without DM fiat the power level is too variable for there to be an average without like, I guess actually studying a whole bunch of peoples games and actually finding the average.

[sambojin]

Even in 5e, that doesn't have nearly the top end power of 3.5, low level stuff is pretty powerful in comparison to normal world stuff. Especially magic, mostly due to the unlimited use nature of cantrips.

Small illusions, telekinesis, magical missiles, being able to make literally anyone better at anything (even if you don't know about it yourself), pyromancy, super smooth talking or actually damaging words. A level one caster might do any of these things and more, as often as they want. In fact, any variant human can if they're a magical initiate.

Sure, they've got real spells too. But even if you're a bit squishy, being able to click your fingers and make magic stuff happen whenever you want it to puts you way above the average house cat in terms of power.


There's a lot of dumb DnD stuff ("Oh, you're dying?" *click* "Now you're not. Get up and stop whinging.") that would seem incredible in the real world. It's not necessarily that powerful in the world it's in, but low end magic and class abilities in 5e are usually far more powerful or regularly useful than in 3.5, but don't have the earth shattering possibilities at later levels.

[Scoops Novel]

Thoughts on the finished version?

1 Green but trained soldier - possibly a exceptional one
2 Blooded
3 Experienced
4 Veteran
5 Elite troops
6 War hero
7 Human with extras - Highlander/Wolverine
8 Straight up inhumanly good - John Wick
9 Inhumanly good, and a min-maxer. Bellerophon (Pegasus rider)
10 Legend. Perfect storm of experience, skill and strength. (Conan)
11 The best in a nation, a hero amongst heroes. Captain America
12 Recognized by, or one of, the powers that be - Elrond.
13 As entertaining as a mortal can be without actually being a problem. Harry Dresden
14 Army crushing. Achilles
15 Not a angel? Not a issue. Witch king/Beowulf (Dragon slayer)
16 The world is just enough.
17 Hey Loki, remember that guy who used to be funny... Beren (stole from the devil himself)
18 World maker, world breaker. Grandpa Roshi
19 The best in the world. Krillin
20 Godly

In-universe comparison:

01-04 Apprentice adventurer
05-10 Coming into one's own
11-16 Mighty adventurer
17-20 Heroic archetype

[GM-X]

Approximately 1 fireball.

I tend to agree with that in a nutshell. At level 10 fully rested, a PC is approximately like 10-fireballs. You could dramatically change history at will in the right place and time. 

[Scoops Novel]

Would Level 30 best be described as Minor god? Or not quite?

[Sirus]

My dude, this thread is nearly five years in the grave. Why resurrect it?

[Scoops Novel]

Honestly i came up with the notion of your age being equivalent to your level, and i'm fond of it. Level 30 seems like the most satisfying IRL level cap to me. It's pretty much when you naturally peak anyway.

[scriver]

Yes when I was one year old I was fully trained with every weapon and armour type generally available in my area, my friend had already mastered simple reality-altering spells and my other friend had entered into a deal with a devil, gaining lots of forbidden knowledge and world hacks from it

[MrRoboto75]

Yes when I was one year old I was fully trained with every weapon and armour type generally available in my area

A baby rattle is basically a dnd mace really.

[Scoops Novel]

I thnk of it as that age at its maximum potential.

I guess it starts making sense at age 20, maybe as a teenager. If you could theoretically be a rock god at 15... that's got to be worth some levels.