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Author Topic: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?  (Read 1895 times)

Bjorn

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Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« on: May 14, 2022, 09:33:33 pm »
Hey there, I am currently trying to mod a civ and I wanted to make positions that had specified forms of succession, yet also has the flexibility of being appointed. But I noticed that I can't really replace an appointee and the starter position I created (Chief Elder) also can't be replaced. Do you guys know why that is? I can replace EXPEDITION_LEADERs, but I can't really replace people from my positions.

The civ:
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Mobbstar

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Re: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 05:35:28 am »
The wiki has a helpful page for this:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Position_token#Why_won.27t_my_positions_appear.3F

APPOINTED_BY is unavailable on embark and requires at least one representative of the appointing position.  This can be a position on the site, or a civ-wide position.

Sadly, the wiki is a bit sparse on SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION in this regard.  Consider giving either position an ELECTED to fall back to.
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Bjorn

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Re: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 07:38:29 am »
Quote from: Mobbstar on May 18, 2022, 05:35:28 am
The wiki has a helpful page for this:
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Position_token#Why_won.27t_my_positions_appear.3F

APPOINTED_BY is unavailable on embark and requires at least one representative of the appointing position.  This can be a position on the site, or a civ-wide position.

Sadly, the wiki is a bit sparse on SUCCESSION:BY_POSITION in this regard.  Consider giving either position an ELECTED to fall back to.

Thanks, mate! I was afraid to make it elective and have elections be held yearly without me wanting them (I want it to be a stable position), but I'll do two experiments. I'll try putting [ELECTED] on the Chief Elder position and spend a year and see if he is reelected. If not, I'll keep it as is. If he is reelected, then I'll create a new position that'll have as sole function to select the chief elder (the chief elder is the link to all other positions because he selects the Shaman who selects the Warchief). I'm also going to decrease the number of acolytes and elders (will keep the larger numbers of Grand Elders and Grand Acolytes though because that's civ level stuff so it makes sense that it is more crowded).

Thanks again for the help!
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Bjorn

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Re: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 05:32:42 pm »
UPDATE: Through experimentation I have found that what stops replacement is the tag SUCCESSION. If you specify a SUCCESSION pattern (be it BY_POSITION or BY_HEIR succession patterns), you cannot replace the creature from the position. They will be succeeded by the creature that has the other position or by the heir, depending on the pattern. It's a pity, because I wanted to be able to replace even though they had a specific succession route, but I guess I'll have to compromise and remove the succession for the chief elder. The others I will keep succession, because that creates an impression that these positions are independent of the Chief Elder once they are appointed by him, which is actually the idea so I find that a nice way to show that through the mechanics.
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Redman9012

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Re: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2022, 10:03:35 am »
Interesting, so does this mean that i have a "Leader" position that's hereditary, i can only appoint the leader myself if it's unoccupied?

Does this also mean that the only way to replace the position would be to kill the noble, then on the instant that the position becomes vacant, to appoint someone yourself before the game recognizes that the position should be elected?
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Bjorn

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Re: Why can't I replace my custom made position holder?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2022, 08:15:09 pm »
It seems so, that is something worth making an experiment. If you find that to be the case, please share your findings with us!
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