Hi all,
I've been trying to figure out what gets human civs to build Keeps in their towns. It is, apparently, not something they do readily, because I've been unable to get them to do it without using the [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITION:ALL] token (whereby keeps are built when a procgen "baron" is created for the town).
Basically I wanted a human civ that functioned like dwarves, with defined positions for civ and site level, land holders in three tiers, etc. All that worked fine, of course - but then I noticed that their civ never built keeps. So I did a bunch of testing, stripping down the position raws for the site leader and adding bits in one by one. I tried a bevy of different responsibilities, giving the leader a squad, succession by heir, appointment vs. election vs. neither, requiring and not requiring a market or population level, having the leader position replace another position, giving him [SPECIAL_BURIAL]... even upping the [REQUIRED_OFFICE...] etc. numbers! Nothing has worked so far.
I know it's not the defined civ-level or landholder positions bothering it either, because those work just fine with the procgen barons.
I did notice a few other oddities, though, that may have bearing on the situation.
- Ordinarily a Keep replaces an existing Mead Hall, once a Hamlet site gets promoted to Town level. But this doesn't happen for Town sites established in year 1: these Towns NEVER seem to build Mead Halls. They build a Market in year 1, but never a Mead Hall.
This happens even in vanilla human raws: the year-1 Towns never build a Mead Hall, instead building a Keep right away, as soon as the baron gets created.
- As a minor corollary to the above - and contrary to what the Wiki currently says - the [REQUIRES_MARKET] token does, in fact, seem to mean the position requires a Market: my site leader position with [REQUIRES_MARKET] did not appear until a Market was built.
- Keeps can be built without the [BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS] tag (again contrary to the Wiki's suggestion). The tag seems only to allow the creation of free-standing Castle sites.
- More strangely still, with [BUILD_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS] enabled, the civ will create a procgen "baron" position to occupy the castle EVEN IF SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS ARE NOT ENABLED! With [BUILDS_OUTDOOR_FORTIFICATIONS] but without [SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS:ALL], I was getting free-standing castles with "barons", but no keeps in towns with my raw-defined position.
What this suggests to me is that (unfortunately) the creation of Keeps is inextricably tied up with the SITE_VARIABLE_POSITIONS token. That token has always allowed for certain behaviors that were otherwise unavailable - specifically the world-gen creation of position titles, either "by threats of violence", "by a wave of popular support", or "as a matter of course" - so it seems not unlikely that keep-building could have been added to the mix in .47.xx (when the procgen "barons" and free-standing castles were added).
Which would be a shame, IMO, greatly restricting as it does the moddability of town-dwelling entities. So I wondered if anyone has other information on this topic: is there just something I'm missing, some token or sequence of tokens that makes keeps possible without using the procgen positions?
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Topic: Getting Keeps to be built (Read 1046 times)