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Author Topic: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics  (Read 22108 times)

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #435 on: August 14, 2023, 04:35:35 pm »

Looks like the PSNI[1] data pretty much definitely is in the hands of those it should not be. It sounded very much like those concerned were just claiming possession for the lulz(/"make your enemy nervous" sort of thing), though of course it would have always need to be assumed that they might. But now either:
  • ...they did have it all along, or
  • ...they didn't, but they finally got it from someone who'd grabbed it (from someone who'd grabbed it, and repeat as necessary) originally, or
  • ...it isn't them, but someone ("...who grabbed it from...", * N) has a sick enough sense of humour to do this, which is practically the same as the above point/may also result in it.

Being of the Computer Security type person myself (though nowhere near the same field of corporate responsibility), I can imagine how easy this episode is to happen (by accident, I'm assuming[2]). At least could, without actual sanity checks during pre-release reviews, but I honestly can only guess what range of SOPs/P&Ps govern those involved and how they'd fail to catch this.


[1] I still keep thinking they mean NS&I, when it gets mentioned...
[2] Though no more useful an occasion for a (seperate?) deliberate exfiltration of data to be masked behind the public error(/'error').
People occasionally leak things out of casual incompetence

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #436 on: August 14, 2023, 06:44:25 pm »

Yeah, I noted that too (either the UK or the US versions of it, and probably any NATO force could have done the same[1]).

Different form of incompetence, though. Almost certainly ".ml" was (perhaps multuple times, but historically) typoed into contact lists/target address variables.

I'm going to hazard a guess that the PSNI error was one individual working with the private spreadsheet(s) on the internal opendata request handling system, totalled up the relevent subtotals in line with the request, assigned the task record to a colleague/superior with his "answer" and the documents attached with the comment suggesting it could be checked before release. Maybe it was checked, but it was certainly published without removing the "auxilliary" attachments. Really, should be set up with clear eventual-public and strictly role-based internal and private fields, in any such system, where the source data can be there for internal record/review but nevee in danger of being sent to whatever CMS front-end they must have sent both the "There are ### employees, of whom ### are officers, ### are administrative, ... etc" bit and the 'internal evidence' for the figure. So easy to do, if you haven't (so easily... well, a SMOP) already anticipated the error. Which is essentially a human error, but should not be considered a single human error, but a series of them because some form of answer-auditing surely takes place when an organisation such as them has an official information-passing department.

If it's just two, or one, person in a cubby-hole at the far end of some room with 'business centre' vibes, then they're probably overloaded with all the various disparatw data processing needs they must be lumbered with. If it was an intern, let loose on the request (and the means to publish it) to not bother more experienced workers, then it's a managerial failure through and through to not keep tabs on their ability to do it right.

My experience on the edge (supporting) a data-heavy business, and even modifying the databases (good old LotusNotes, practically vbScript+database... and the far more deadpan but internally powerful Statistical Analysis System software which I didn't use so much myself) suggests to me where a proper setup should have been able to prevent this, but I imagine there was actually more emails being forwarded, replied to, CC:ed to those too much outside the internal processes to appreciate that "Yes, please publish this" didn't mean to include the attached document(s) as well as whatever summary temp.employee.number596@psni.pol.uk had just compiled and had corrected for misused punctuation.


...I prevaricate. I can make errors as much as the next person. I could tell you tales of how I lost (i.e. deleted/formatted) data, more than gave it away, so don't get me wrong. But this sort of thing is surely a very obvious lesson already prelearnt well before it became this total security breakdown. Even if only with easily available passwording of all spreadsheets by default. Which would have also helped with the 'lost' laptop, simultaneously mentioned, with much less data on it, but accompanied with a force-issue radio handset which I hope was remotely scrambled or caused all other similar units to be re-encoded to make it useless.

(Me? Have a (semi-/previously-)professional opinion on any of this? ...what makes you think that?  8) I mean, technically I was paid to think about such things. Though, in hindsight, not as much as I perhaps should have been. 'Nuff said. And now I'm imagining all the things everyone is imagining I just meant by that. And how you're then mostly wrong, or the wrong sort of mundane... :P )


[1] Two letters==ccTLD per nation; three letters==gTLD by function[2]; more than three letters is the latest ICANN mess[3] in which Amazon (.amazon, .aws, .bot, .talk, and many others I can't remember) isn't even the biggest 'offender' in this regard. I know it could escape a glance/be easily typoed[5], but ".mus" could have handled ".museum" and ".xxx" means we (or at least those that may use it) don't need ".adult" as well to confuse matters.
[2] And, in .mil, .edu, .gov etc should perhaps be considered US (c.f. ".mod.uk", ".ac.uk"/".sch.uk" and ".gov.uk"), certainly the .mil and .gov[4] (supposedly) entirely restricted to US interests.
[3] I have no problem with internationalised versions into non-Latin codepages (perhaps with an equivalent (ab)brevity if possible) but... rampant commercialism has the tail wagging the dog, making a subtle system into a monstrous chimera. When's the last time you used (or saw) a .dating address. Or .mba. Or .ooo(???), .pink, .rodeo, .skin, ...? (Highly specific interests, especially if you decide you need to register beneath all of those, for branding reasons.) Do we really need a .vodka domain?
[4] Hmm, luckily safer as there's no .go, .gv or .ov; .gu is Guam (US), .gi Gibraltar (UK), but the likes of .gw/.gy could be missed by eye almost as easily as mil=>ml can be, with any additional transliteration on top of that adds to the tyop-induced error.
[5] If only they'd initially thought of "graycode-spacing" all the abbreviations in establishing or cribbing from the orignating ISO, so that a single error of any kind never changes one valid thing into another valid thing. But you'd probably need to have started with 3+ letters to differentiate every nation (with compromises that some nations might be left with unintuitive .abbrvs (or dialect/local-lingo-based ones[6]) because of other nations - Niger and Nigeria for example (.ne and .ng, as is; .ni is nicuragua, of course)
[6] Ok, so we're all fairly familiar with .ch, .cz, .za, etc, and know why .ki cannot have been .ci like you'd perhaps guess.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 06:53:57 pm by Starver »
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Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #437 on: August 15, 2023, 08:10:58 am »

I've slightly revised my view on exactly what went wrong, based upon this separate failure, if it was similarly caused. But still it seems that there's no sanity checks / firewalling between inner-data processing and outer-data summarising.
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martinuzz

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #438 on: August 15, 2023, 08:14:46 am »

Yeah that leak has caused some serious security concerns for those whose data was leaked. I suspect there's going to be a lot of forced relocations and new identities for protection and safety, with all drama involved of being dead to basically most of your old life and friends.
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Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #439 on: September 15, 2023, 01:47:17 am »

Drivers have been warned not to rely on sat-navs for the speed limit on residential roads in Wales when it is reduced to 20mph from 30mph on Sunday.
...or, you know, actually know the rules of the road and be aware what big signs with "20" in a red circle means.

(It mentions road signs below, but some people don't seem to know the road laws anyway. And, despite Scotland being said to not yet having decided on making it the default, I can tell you that many central-belt settlements are explicitly 20mph already, and not just with "20's Plenty" unenforcable nag-signs.)
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hector13

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #440 on: September 17, 2023, 10:29:37 pm »

She’s still at it.

Two choice quotes:

Quote
She is expected to say that communication "could have been better and the operation better honed" but also that she was unable to implement her plans because there was a "powerful force comprising the economic and political elite, corporatists, parts of the media and even a section of the Conservative parliamentary party" opposed to her ideas.

Maybe they were opposed to the ideas because they knew they wouldn’t work? Funny how that works eh.

Quote
Responding to her speech, the Liberal Democrat's deputy leader Daisy Cooper said: "Liz Truss giving a speech on economic growth is like an arsonist giving a talk on fire safety."

I consider her tenure to be surmised by the following hypothetical:

Aide: “okay Ms. Truss, this is your new ministerial phone,” *aide turns to pick up phone*

“You should use this for all offic-“ *aide turns back*

“Why is everything on fire?”

Ms Truss: “a combination of economic and political elites did it and ran away!”
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Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #441 on: September 22, 2023, 09:09:11 am »

Tbh I prefer the wisdom the head of Lettuce can provide based off of its experience as a national vegetable

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #442 on: September 22, 2023, 11:55:38 am »

The need for more reliable leaders is just the tip of the iceberg...
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Frumple

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #443 on: September 22, 2023, 12:29:17 pm »

Any case, I'm pretty sure I'd trust an arsonist giving a talk on fire safety more than truss on economic growth. There's value in black hat expertise when it comes to preventative measures, y'know? That statement's being unfair to arsonists :P
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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #445 on: September 26, 2023, 12:18:43 pm »

Drivers have been warned not to rely on sat-navs for the speed limit on residential roads in Wales when it is reduced to 20mph from 30mph on Sunday.
...or, you know, actually know the rules of the road and be aware what big signs with "20" in a red circle means.

People actually read those?
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EuchreJack

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #446 on: September 26, 2023, 03:02:24 pm »

She’s still at it.

Two choice quotes:

Quote
She is expected to say that communication "could have been better and the operation better honed" but also that she was unable to implement her plans because there was a "powerful force comprising the economic and political elite, corporatists, parts of the media and even a section of the Conservative parliamentary party" opposed to her ideas.

Maybe they were opposed to the ideas because they knew they wouldn’t work? Funny how that works eh.

Quote
Responding to her speech, the Liberal Democrat's deputy leader Daisy Cooper said: "Liz Truss giving a speech on economic growth is like an arsonist giving a talk on fire safety."

I consider her tenure to be surmised by the following hypothetical:

Aide: “okay Ms. Truss, this is your new ministerial phone,” *aide turns to pick up phone*

“You should use this for all offic-“ *aide turns back*

“Why is everything on fire?”

Ms Truss: “a combination of economic and political elites did it and ran away!”
Ok, that was a hilariously accurate analogy to Truss's Premiership.

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #447 on: September 28, 2023, 05:45:36 am »

Ok, that was a hilariously accurate analogy to Truss's Premiership.

Liz Truss pulls up free marketly in an Aston Martin. The rolls-royce engine roars as she revs the great metal beast powered on the blood of dinosaurs and the tears of weak effete liberals, who do not understand her big cock Thatcher energy. The sound of cool britannia reverberated through the Tesco petrol station as she exited her vehicle and raised two middle fingers in the direction of Moscow. "LIBERAL ELITES COULD BE HERE," Liz Truss said, pulling out her cricket bat to assuage her (merited) fear of liberal elites. "I'VE NOT BEEN HERE BEFORE. LIBERAL ELITES COULD BE ANYWHERE." She finished purchasing a head of lettuce before returning to her aston martin. "WITH AN ASTON MARTIN YOU CAN GO ANYWHERE," she said, speeding off into the sunset.

Loud Whispers

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #448 on: October 04, 2023, 07:04:52 am »

Nigel Farage & British Muslims: no one safe from arbitrary debanking

Pretty good listen into what I've complained about for years. People talk all this shit about how insane PRC is for social credit systems, but then don't notice how in our own countries the withdrawal of payment services, insurance services, telecoms e.t.c. can essentially force someone out of participating in urban society by denying them the ability to use their own cash or access services necessary to travel/work/live. And when these companies are consolidated, especially in banking, if you get shut out by a network of them you end up having no alternative, no recourse. The chap in question got screwed over by the UAE for his activism and yet all the western banks sided with the UAE government. Whilst NatWest lost against Nigel Farage, loads of chaps get debanked and lack the clout to endure being targeted

Starver

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Re: United Kingdom Bunker Thread - Politics & Economics
« Reply #449 on: October 12, 2023, 04:22:12 am »

A headline that you might not have expected, at the moment, Cameron gives Tories an additional seat in Scotland sort of

(It'll be interesting to follow this forward. Historically, other than SNP it was strong Labour. For the future, boundaries are changing anyway so what the Lesmahagow disposition of the vote might be could be important. Right now, it's pretty much just an inconsequential change that probably says more about the person than the people.)
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