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Author Topic: civilian fear range  (Read 943 times)

Metruption

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civilian fear range
« on: November 02, 2022, 10:55:15 pm »

has anyone documented what the civilian fear range is to prevent them from being interrupted by <monster>?
what is this fear range?
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anewaname

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2022, 07:34:27 pm »

Some creatures will interrupt dwarfs, there is not much you can do about that and there is no "fear range". Maybe the dwarf runs away, maybe the dwarf attacks, but their job is always interrupted.

If you are having problems with some creatures causing many job interruptions, pasture a few dogs near that area or send dwarfs with axes or crossbows.
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Salmeuk

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2022, 09:19:01 pm »

in regards to the specific distance, I believe some people have experimented in previous versions but I doubt that information would carry over after the most recent updates (maybe it would. .) I think the testing process would be difficult to control, perhaps you could arrange an ambushing force to approach a series of dwarves crafting in workshops. a lot of messy variables to control.

I would find it interesting if we could establish that the distance for witnessing baddies is same for every dwarf regardless of aptitude
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Bumber

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2022, 07:04:14 pm »

Something like 14 tiles, IIRC. Might be on the wiki w/r/t siege engineers.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2022, 07:23:05 pm »

The wiki article on siege engines says that it’s “up to” 10 tiles.
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brewer bob

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2022, 09:42:34 pm »

The wiki article on siege engines says that it’s “up to” 10 tiles.

I've seen interruptions frequently with 10 tiles (also with 14, iirc).

20 tiles seems to be fairly certain that siege operators don't get freaked out by enemies, but I haven't done any extensive testing (and use siege engines rarely).

Schmaven

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2022, 07:56:49 am »

I ran some tests along these lines some time ago, and since it seems to depend entirely upon their observer skill, I wouldn't expect that to have changed over the versions since the test was conducted.

I'm 99% sure it's only the dwarves' observer skills determine how close the enemy can get before spooking them.  All dwarves Any dwarf that can see will get spooked at a certain distance.

Further testing lead to a range of 17 to 25 tiles of space needed depending on whether the dwarf is just a dabbling observer or a legendary +5 observer. 

The first test was entirely done with 1 dwarf with the following stats (I'm just guessing which ones might have an effect here):

Gap Required: 20 tiles
Discipline: Dabbling (0)
Siege Operator: Talented (6)
Concentration: Dabbling (0)
Observer: Adequate: (2)

In the second round of tests, the ballista was moved 1 tile closer to the zombie, such that 19 tiles of space (including 1 tile of ballista and 1 tile of fortification) separate the operator; the military commander was ordered to prepare the ballista to fire; and the lever was pulled.  The commander immediately fled.  The ballista was then moved back 1 tile such that 20 tiles of space separate them.  This caused the commander to also flee.  Ultimately, the ballista had to be relocated such that 25 tiles separate are between the center of the ballista and the undead in order for the commander to hold strong.  The commander's stats are:

Gap Required: 25 tiles
Discipline: Legendary +5 (20)
Siege Operator: No experience (-)
Concentration: Talented (6)
Observer: Legendary +5 (20)

I'm thinking it's the observer skill at work.  Discipline (unless offset by observer) skill does not seem to have any effect.  It also appears that siege operator skill has no effect on the spook range.  Interestingly, the change from 0 observer skill to 2 observer skill increased the distance required by 3.  Lower level skill gains here seem to have greater effects. 

A stonemason with the following skill levels was also tested to find the other end of the minimum fright distance:

Gap Required: 17 tiles
Discipline: No experience (-)
Siege Operator: No experience (-)
Concentration: No experience (-)
Observer: Dabbling (0)

The stonemason was able to man the ballista with a gap of only 17 tiles between their operator position and the undead. 

Spoiler: Ranges Visible Here (click to show/hide)
In the image above, the crosshairs vertically line up with the center point of the ballista when the commander or the stonemason fled.  The up stairs align with the center of the ballista where they would sit happily awaiting to fire.  And the upward pointing triangles indicate the width of the ballista to make counting tiles of space easier. 

Setting up ballistas with a 25 tile gap is just about a whole vertical screen for me:
Spoiler: In Practice (click to show/hide)

I'm fairly certain the results also apply to civilians walking past a zombie-filled pit of various depths.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2022, 01:19:01 pm »

I ran some tests along these lines some time ago, and since it seems to depend entirely upon their observer skill, I wouldn't expect that to have changed over the versions since the test was conducted.

I'm 99% sure it's only the dwarves' observer skills determine how close the enemy can get before spooking them.  All dwarves Any dwarf that can see will get spooked at a certain distance.

Further testing lead to a range of 17 to 25 tiles of space needed depending on whether the dwarf is just a dabbling observer or a legendary +5 observer. 

The first test was entirely done with 1 dwarf with the following stats (I'm just guessing which ones might have an effect here):

Gap Required: 20 tiles
Discipline: Dabbling (0)
Siege Operator: Talented (6)
Concentration: Dabbling (0)
Observer: Adequate: (2)

In the second round of tests, the ballista was moved 1 tile closer to the zombie, such that 19 tiles of space (including 1 tile of ballista and 1 tile of fortification) separate the operator; the military commander was ordered to prepare the ballista to fire; and the lever was pulled.  The commander immediately fled.  The ballista was then moved back 1 tile such that 20 tiles of space separate them.  This caused the commander to also flee.  Ultimately, the ballista had to be relocated such that 25 tiles separate are between the center of the ballista and the undead in order for the commander to hold strong.  The commander's stats are:

Gap Required: 25 tiles
Discipline: Legendary +5 (20)
Siege Operator: No experience (-)
Concentration: Talented (6)
Observer: Legendary +5 (20)

I'm thinking it's the observer skill at work.  Discipline (unless offset by observer) skill does not seem to have any effect.  It also appears that siege operator skill has no effect on the spook range.  Interestingly, the change from 0 observer skill to 2 observer skill increased the distance required by 3.  Lower level skill gains here seem to have greater effects. 

A stonemason with the following skill levels was also tested to find the other end of the minimum fright distance:

Gap Required: 17 tiles
Discipline: No experience (-)
Siege Operator: No experience (-)
Concentration: No experience (-)
Observer: Dabbling (0)

The stonemason was able to man the ballista with a gap of only 17 tiles between their operator position and the undead. 

Spoiler: Ranges Visible Here (click to show/hide)
In the image above, the crosshairs vertically line up with the center point of the ballista when the commander or the stonemason fled.  The up stairs align with the center of the ballista where they would sit happily awaiting to fire.  And the upward pointing triangles indicate the width of the ballista to make counting tiles of space easier. 

Setting up ballistas with a 25 tile gap is just about a whole vertical screen for me:
Spoiler: In Practice (click to show/hide)

I'm fairly certain the results also apply to civilians walking past a zombie-filled pit of various depths.

Interesting.  Any chance you could run the tests again while making use of DFHack’s assign-skills feature?
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Schmaven

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2022, 01:59:27 pm »

The fort was fairly recent, from 47.04

I'm not too comfortable with DFHack, but you're welcome to grab the save and experiment with it:

Here's the fort in case you want to decide its fate from here:
https://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=15327
The DFHack command "gui/mechanisms" is your friend when you look with q at a bridge or lever.
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Salmeuk

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Re: civilian fear range
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2022, 04:39:08 pm »

yeah that's the science I knew had happened but failed to find a bookmark for! Thanks Schmaven. It stuck in my mind because of the irony that a more experienced dwarf, or at least one with a good pair of gem-goggles, will end up running earlier. lol
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