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[Felius]

So, relatively recently, there have been this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgolX750KoA

Which is to say, Gimli's actor have done a version of Durin's Song (or the Song of Durin). It inspired me to ask, what exactly would be an appropriate challenge fort to "replicate" what's described in Durin's song? For reference:

The world was young, the mountains green,
No stain yet on the Moon was seen,
No words were laid on stream or stone
When Durin woke and walked alone.
He named the nameless hills and dells;
He drank from yet untasted wells;
He stooped and looked in Mirrormere,
And saw a crown of stars appear,
As gems upon a silver thread,
Above the shadow of his head.

The world was fair, the mountains tall,
In Elder Days before the fall
Of mighty kings in Nargothrond
And Gondolin, who now beyond
The Western Seas have passed away:
The world was fair in Durin's Day.

A king he was on carven throne
In many-pillared halls of stone
With golden roof and silver floor,
And runes of power upon the door.
The light of sun and star and moon
In shining lamps of crystal hewn
Undimmed by cloud or shade of night
There shone for ever fair and bright.

There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was blade, and bound was hilt;
The delver mined, the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,
Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in hoard.

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

So, how would be an appropriate fortress be, to be fair as in Durin's day, with "Golden roof and silver floor", with a "King on carved throne in many pillared halls of stone", including the "runes of power on the door", and "The light of sun and star and moon in shining lamps of crystal hewn undimmed by cloud or shade of night"?  Not to forget too all the industry described in the following verses, because you'll not get "shining spears laid in hoard" just with a fancy throne room.

So, opinions? What would be a hard but doable challenge fortress based on the song?

[Salmeuk]

its strange to me to describe what would be an excursion in aesthetic reproduction as a challenge.

as I understand it, dwarf fortress was created (at least partially) in response to stories similar to Durin's Song. so one could easily reproduce the specifically referenced material realities found in the lyrics.

The world was young, the mountains green,

The world was fair, the mountains tall,

A king he was on carven throne

In many-pillared halls of stone

With golden roof and silver floor,

There hammer on the anvil smote,
There chisel clove, and graver wrote;
There forged was blade, and bound was hilt;
The delver mined, the mason built.
There beryl, pearl, and opal pale,
And metal wrought like fishes' mail,

Buckler and corslet, axe and sword,
And shining spears were laid in hoard

Unwearied then were Durin's folk;
Beneath the mountains music woke:
The harpers harped, the minstrels sang,
And at the gates the trumpets rang.

The world is grey, the mountains old,
The forge's fire is ashen-cold;
No harp is wrung, no hammer falls:
The darkness dwells in Durin's halls;
The shadow lies upon his tomb
In Moria, in Khazad-dûm.
But still the sunken stars appear
In dark and windless Mirrormere;
There lies his crown in water deep,
Till Durin wakes again from sleep.

1. create a world less than 100 years and appropriate biomes provide mountain meadows.

2. also, create that world with higher than average good biomes, elevation max = 400 with fewer than 20 erosion cycle counts to maintain height / crag propensity

3. have a king

4. construct a large, 5 z-level pillars in a wide room, at least 50 x 50.

5. fortress is paved / roofed with gold and silver metal bars

6. stonecrafting, masonry, metalworking, etc should provide constant work for at least 5 dwarves apiece

7. accumulate 100+ masterwork examples of each weapon type in a grand armory

8. have two taverns with keepers and three employed musicians each. have a set of entrance gates 5 z-levels tall

9. play this fortress for the next 1000 years until all that is left are goblins and necromancers. lower popcap to 1, emtomb a dwarf named 'Durin' who has also been turned into a vampire.

congrats , you've won!

...

in truth, I'm not a fan of this extrapolation. it feels somehow disrespectful.

to meaningfully recreate this song in dwarf fortress would take a very thoughtful and sensitive approach. replicating the feeling of the poem rather than some list material goods. which, when referenced within the song, aren't even meant as these explicit objects but instead suggestive of a larger culture of craftwork and dwarven mastery...

i have seen a few examples of truly poetic play, in various community fortresses. where the player mixes roleplay with simulation and creates wonderous object that is sort of a poem in architecture. after all, fortresses are fairly static things in terms of place, and the player often acts more as a set designer, providing the stage upon which these dwarves perform.

so an emphasis on capturing the tone of Durin's song would mean creating a fortress that, when shown to other people, causes amazement in a literal sense. It would mean taking the simulation to its limits, building (against all odds) a metropolis of masterful production. It would mean creating and nurturing a dwarf to be worthy of the name 'Durin'.

[doublestrafe]

9. play this fortress for the next 1000 years until all that is left are goblins and necromancers. lower popcap to 1, emtomb a dwarf named 'Durin' who has also been turned into a vampire.

No no no, this literally where the circus comes from.

"Moria! Moria! Wonder of the Northern world! Too deep we delved there, and woke the nameless fear. Long have its vast mansions lain empty since the children of Durin fled. But now we spoke of it again with longing, and yet with dread; for no dwarf has dared to pass the doors of Khazad-dûm for many lives of kings, save Thrór only, and he perished."

Durin's folk breached a candymithril spire. After much slaughter they were forced to abandon. Thorin earned his epithet Oakenshield during a siege on Moria (in retribution for Thrór's death and desecration), where they won the battle but took too many casualties for a reclaim attempt. Balin, Ori, and Óin perished in another reclaim. The key to this recreation is running the rest of the civilization, not the fortress once it's built.

[sodafoutain]

I think the fact of the matter is that every fortress replicates, to a certain extent, the mines of Moria at Khazad-dûm. Keeping dwarves happy means creating industry and craftwork, and giving them ample chance to experience pleasurable art. Whenever you delve too greedily and too deep, you either get rekt by forgotten beasts or the Balrogs under the earth.

Or at least it should replicate Moria, if you're playing like a true Scotsman.