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Author Topic: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.  (Read 1871 times)

Panando

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2023, 02:12:29 pm »

So I have learned that the Giant Elephants are insanely tough in fights.

In "alternative reality" fights against the Giant Elephant Forest Retreat, only ONCE have I seen a Giant Elephant defeated, and that was by one of my own Elephants. It seems that even an elite dwarf has essentially no chance of defeating a Giant Elephant presumably due to some simplification of the combat, presumably in this simplified system an Elephant sized creature can, if the are lucky, defeat a Giant Elephant sized creature, but for a Dwarf sized creature it's essentially impossible, even if using DFHack to crank up all the combat skills to ridiculous extent they still have no chance.

The combats are just really strange though. Like here:


The funny thing isn't just that Mosus the war dog slayed 8 elephants in a 1 on 10, but I want to show the description of Mosus the War Dog prior to the battle:


She had lost the ability to walk due to having pulverized front paws, she moved around a crawl. And she's about as weak as a creature possibly can be.

So the elephants got their asses kicked by an unquestionably weak and crippled dog.

And getting back to the Giant Elephants, checking legends, all I can say is what the actual f?



For some reason the Giant Elephants are actually settling into the site like intelligent creatures. Why??



IT GOT MARRIED?! WHAT?

Seriously, isn't that what intelligent creatures do? but according to the raws I don't think there's anything making Giant Elephants intelligent.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 05:00:44 pm by Panando »
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satan

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2023, 05:58:51 pm »

If you save before the elves arrive, you can savescum to reset their stock until they sell the animals you want.

The elves brought giant elephants the next year to taunt me some more, and show off their unethical enslavement of the majestic beasts. They bought two male Giant Elephants this time.

While some elf-lover recommended giving stuff to the elves in exchange for them possibly bringing a giant elephant in a cage, I question if that's even possible. Elephants (of either size) don't seem to have a TRADE_CAPACITY defined so they must be using some default value. The Elf caravan with 2x Giant Elephants has a weight budget of 2200 units, so I'm guessing something like the elephants have a default of 1000 and the elves a default of 100, Elephants would actually seem to be one of the weaker pack beasts. Anyway, this is clearly not enough capacity to actually carry a Giant Elephant, leading me to doubt the elves would ever bring a Giant Elephant in a cage.

My next thought then, is instead of trying to buy Giant Elephants from the elves, sending a party of dwarves skilled in dwarven negotiations with the finest steel items to engage in a form of exchange where the Elves lose their Giant Elephants, and the party of dwarves bring the Giant Elephants home.

They can bring giant elephants in cages. I bought a breeding pair myself.


So I have learned that the Giant Elephants are insanely tough in fights.

In "alternative reality" fights against the Giant Elephant Forest Retreat, only ONCE have I seen a Giant Elephant defeated, and that was by one of my own Elephants. It seems that even an elite dwarf has essentially no chance of defeating a Giant Elephant presumably due to some simplification of the combat, presumably in this simplified system an Elephant sized creature can, if the are lucky, defeat a Giant Elephant sized creature, but for a Dwarf sized creature it's essentially impossible, even if using DFHack to crank up all the combat skills to ridiculous extent they still have no chance.
You can kill them fairly easily if you trap them in a hallway and send packs of elite dwarves in steel armor to swarm them.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2023, 06:14:52 pm by satan »
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Superdorf

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2023, 07:45:51 pm »

In "alternative reality" fights against the Giant Elephant Forest Retreat, only ONCE have I seen a Giant Elephant defeated, and that was by one of my own Elephants. It seems that even an elite dwarf has essentially no chance of defeating a Giant Elephant presumably due to some simplification of the combat, presumably in this simplified system an Elephant sized creature can, if the are lucky, defeat a Giant Elephant sized creature, but for a Dwarf sized creature it's essentially impossible, even if using DFHack to crank up all the combat skills to ridiculous extent they still have no chance.

This is my point, yeah - if you want to bring in some giant elephants of your own via pillaging, you might have to whittle them down by means of lesser (but still imposing) war animals. Demons are very difficult to kill in raid combat for similar reasons.
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Egan_BW

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2023, 09:17:53 pm »

Maybe the lands around the giant elephant retreat are razed of trees because the giant elephants ate them all.
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Panando

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2023, 07:20:55 am »

They can bring giant elephants in cages. I bought a breeding pair myself.

Good to know though not sure how that would work in terms of caravan weight budget, do they just ignore it for a single object which is too heavy? There are still friendly elves who trade with me on this world and they also bring Giant Elephants as caravan pack animals.

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You can kill them fairly easily if you trap them in a hallway and send packs of elite dwarves in steel armor to swarm them.

Well if I could get the damn things into my fortress all of my problems would be solved :P. I know they are super easy to kill in normal fortress combat, I'm sure one elite dwarf who is spear or pick dwarf could effortlessly solo one, probably also sword, maybe axe, not sure if a hammer or mace dwarf could kill one but any elite dwarf could probably at least make it pass out from exhaustion until a random miner comes along and excavates its brain.

The huge disconnect between fortress combat and mission combat is somewhat vexing. Not that conquering the forest retreat with its stupid married giant elephants would actually help me acquire giant elephants of my own.
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Blue_Dwarf

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2023, 10:58:25 am »

Maybe you should send one of your dwarfs to marry one, instead of trying to capture it.
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Superdorf

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Re: The elf traders pack animals are Giant Elephants. I have covetousness.
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2023, 12:59:37 pm »

hmm

Maybe you can cage trap the packbeasts somehow? Cave-in dust might help.
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