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Author Topic: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)  (Read 11758 times)

Magmacube_tr

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #210 on: August 25, 2023, 12:38:27 pm »

Interest rates are back to %25. I wonder what happened to the whole "interest-is-haram" thing ersoğan was propogating around? Yeah. Yeah, right.

Such a policy is %100 Islamic, by the way. Almost anything in the Quran can be bent and reinterpreted into pretty much anything you want. The opportunities to squeeze your way are endless. The divine ban on interest is not one of those. It is plain and simple;

Al-Baqarah
"Those who consume interest will stand ˹on Judgment Day˺ like those driven to madness by Satan’s touch. That is because they say, “Trade is no different than interest.” But Allah has permitted trading and forbidden interest. Whoever refrains—after having received warning from their Lord—may keep their previous gains, and their case is left to Allah. As for those who persist, it is they who will be the residents of the Fire. They will be there forever."

If someone is a muslim, they cannot partake in interest at all. Or else Yahweh gets all pissy and grump and torturous and genocidal.

But I guess money>religion. Money is the strongest god, after all.

The damage is already done. The economy is already busted. The prices won't go down. They sold a fucking landmark zone  to the arabs for pocket money. They could have done this years ago, but oh well!

... Better late than never.

And for those of you who are wondering why is religion so relevant in this issue here; I wish I was with you.

Moral of the day: DON'T TAKE FUCKING FINANCIAL ADVICE FROM A FUCKING MERCHANT PEDOPHILE WARLORD FROM THE 7TH FUCKING CENTURY!!!
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Ulfarr

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #211 on: August 25, 2023, 01:43:04 pm »

They say that trade is permitted because the merchant has to bear the risks of the future, so why should the lender enjoy guaranteed profits? But I ask you, doesn't the lender also take a risk? For what guaranty is there, that they will live long enough, to enjoy or even gain said profits?

Joking aside, as a non muslim I find it quite amusing that at least one interpretation of said text/law, boils down to "trading is basicaly gambling ,so we'll allow it"
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EuchreJack

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #212 on: August 26, 2023, 09:54:52 pm »

I agree with Magma on not taking bad financial advice.
Because lending money IS risky. There is no free money honestly earned. Risk time & effort are required, even in the lending industry.

The biggest risk in lending, which should be obvious to anyone capable of looking at it from the view of the lender, is NOT GETTING PAID BACK.
(There is also the more nuanced and less popular risk of not making as much money as even the lowest risk of loans, hence why banks in America are more middleman loaning government money and other money rather than rich organizations lending their own limited financial resources.)

Loud Whispers

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #213 on: August 27, 2023, 02:00:43 pm »

The biggest risk in lending is that the money you don't have, which you lent to someone who also doesn't have money, may result in a debt not being paid which means then the government has to bail you out for the loan you gave from money you didn't have... Still get to keep your bonuses though :]

Maximum Spin

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #214 on: August 27, 2023, 04:06:11 pm »

The real reason for the prohibition is antisemitism.
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Magmacube_tr

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #215 on: August 27, 2023, 04:52:35 pm »

The real reason for the prohibition is antisemitism.

CORRECT ANSWER!!!
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Starver

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #216 on: August 28, 2023, 12:24:19 am »

(I hope I'm not straying onto murky ground here, one way or anther...)

There's a bit of circular (il)logic to the Western antisemitic/money-lender thing, at least in more 'recent' times. Law/custom against 'righteous Christians' lending money in combination with excluding (or biasing heavily against) the Jewish from many other professions tended to reinforce the whole "you need a moneylender, then go talk to the Jew!" sort of thing.

Which then makes a self-reinforcing twofer reason for isolating the local 'sons of Abraham' from the rest of society. Almost 'Untouchable' like the Dalit's in India. And perhaps even exactly for those forced into jobs such as nightsoil-merchants, but then also those "knew where all the money was" (and wasn't... or at least knew all the fine details about who didn't really have the wealth they might otherwise claim to have), probably with a lot of other conspicuously high-tur over business on the side (goldsmithery/jewel-cutting) as either directly having the collaterol to engage in such an above-subsistence sideline or "knowing a Mensch who will help one's brother-in-law". It drives the non-integration, and adds a handy target when things boil over and mere distaste for the 'othered' transforms into jealousy that at least some of those 'others' might be in posession of wealth/power that ...perhaps it would be best that they don't?

(This also moves into the same areas as the seemingly perpetual "anti-outgroup" trope of them being both workshy and "taking our jobs". Both mindless automatons and plotting with a most deviously and insipid cunning. Dogwhistle prejudices that morph to suit the current bugbear and ingroup/outgroup split. Beyond religion: can be ageist, sexist and all forms of nationalist. But the judaic diaspora may well have simultaneously ticked several of those boxes at times, or (dare I say) at times have fallen for the same mental traps in othering the modern Palestinians!)


Now, obviously there was an antiquity basis to the biblical tales from which rose the whole 'Christianity schmutter' from the then mostly accredited Jewish homeland, what with those (by default, Jewish?) temple moneylenders (but, then again "by default, Jewish every profession", give or take other creeds, and whatever layers of differences you ascribe, say, between the levites and samaritans... oh, and all that Roman occupation influence).

And I'm also woefully ignorant about precisely what direction of emphasis the even later fork of the abrahamic family took, save for that it boils down to "if it looks too much like interest, it's haram" and thus any financial instruments must be framed as fully authorised pre-charges or whatever (and clearly must be necessary, for such conceptual contortions to be a regular thing).


I certainly don't doubt that "ultra-anti-antiislamic"[1] Erdogan is not that hot on Judaism, as well. It's at least a 'twofer" reason, right? (Was going to end on a smiley, but it doesn't feel entirely a smiley-worthy conclusion to come to.)


[1] Anything that is not pro-islamic, he seems to be against. Broad secularism included, even/especially that which Ataturk espoused. And "the wrong types of Islam", a la Discworldish "not-a-dwarf"ism. Makes me wonder how much is his true ideology and how much is just political pragmatism in finding the best way to keep his personal popularity jugernaut driving by finding the route ahead through the crowded marketplace that most of 'his' people would actively fheer on.
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Maximum Spin

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #217 on: August 28, 2023, 03:00:14 am »

Okay, so as not to turn this into another argument, let me just stipulate that I have a considerable knowledge about the historical details and mean exactly what I said. I can't really tell if you're trying to disagree or make a point or just speculating for fun I guess? so I'm just going to assure you that there are in fact historical sources you can read if you want.

eta: like do you not even know that the Torah forbids lending at interest? The whole point of the business with the temple moneylenders is that they're sinning against their religion.
You also mention Samaritans. Samaritans would not be anywhere near the temple in Jerusalem. Samaritans did not live in Jerusalem. They lived in Samaria. Hence the name. This is a pretty big deal because Samaritans consider the founding of the temple in Jerusalem itself to be a schismatic and, essentially, sinful act. The Samaritan religion holds that God established the real Temple on Mount Gerizim, north of Jerusalem, in Samaria, where the once-major Samaritan city of Shechem was founded, and the Jerusalem temple was a copycat. The whole statement, including contrasting Samaritans with Levites, which are... a tribe... not a sect, just comes off as very uninformed. I actually have this vague impression that you may have meant to say the Pharisees and Sadducees.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2023, 03:32:41 am by Maximum Spin »
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Quarque

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #218 on: August 28, 2023, 04:05:50 am »

A muslim I know told me he cannot take a mortgage because of his religion, even though the low rent and tax laws make a mortgage extremely advantageous where I live. So in order to buy a house he needs to get filthy rich instead. He's trading in cryptocurrencies to get there. Because Allah is absolutely cool with that shit. But not with 2% rent on a mortgage, oh no, blasphemy.
So far he's gained a few thousand negative euros from trading, buy hey. Temporary setback.

Couldn't believe my ears. I guess Allah trades in crypto himself.
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Magmacube_tr

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #219 on: August 28, 2023, 04:11:23 am »

Couldn't believe my ears. I guess Allah trades in crypto himself.

Oh my Toady, Allah is a cryptobro. That explains everything!
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Loud Whispers

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #220 on: August 28, 2023, 05:32:06 am »

A muslim I know told me he cannot take a mortgage because of his religion, even though the low rent and tax laws make a mortgage extremely advantageous where I live. So in order to buy a house he needs to get filthy rich instead. He's trading in cryptocurrencies to get there. Because Allah is absolutely cool with that shit. But not with 2% rent on a mortgage, oh no, blasphemy.
So far he's gained a few thousand negative euros from trading, buy hey. Temporary setback.

Couldn't believe my ears. I guess Allah trades in crypto himself.
There are shariah house financing options, where the bank purchases the house and sells it to the buyer in monthly installments at a higher price. In economic terms it usually comes out to more expensive than a mortgage, but does have some advantages. It is unaffected by interest rate swings, so you don't get a situation where a weak homeowner is suddenly bankrupted during a recession. And if there is a housing market price collapse, the bank is the one holding the house, and the bank is in a position to just maintain its current financial arrangement with its counterparty, unless the bank itself is in financial distress

scriver

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #221 on: August 28, 2023, 05:42:07 am »

A muslim I know told me he cannot take a mortgage because of his religion, even though the low rent and tax laws make a mortgage extremely advantageous where I live. So in order to buy a house he needs to get filthy rich instead. He's trading in cryptocurrencies to get there. Because Allah is absolutely cool with that shit. But not with 2% rent on a mortgage, oh no, blasphemy.
So far he's gained a few thousand negative euros from trading, buy hey. Temporary setback.

Couldn't believe my ears. I guess Allah trades in crypto himself.

I bet he's being conned by some influencer for born-again young Muslims who also happens to make a lot of money selling the crypto he tells them to buy

"Look at me I made myself rich by trading crypto you could be like me start by buying these cryptos I have here"
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Starver

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #222 on: August 28, 2023, 06:30:25 am »

I can't really tell if you're trying to disagree or make a point or just speculating for fun I guess?
Neither?

Look, I'm on the very edge of mobile access, here. I gave a short qualifaction of that, three times now, but now fed up retyping it.
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EuchreJack

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #223 on: August 28, 2023, 10:27:14 pm »

A muslim I know told me he cannot take a mortgage because of his religion, even though the low rent and tax laws make a mortgage extremely advantageous where I live. So in order to buy a house he needs to get filthy rich instead. He's trading in cryptocurrencies to get there. Because Allah is absolutely cool with that shit. But not with 2% rent on a mortgage, oh no, blasphemy.
So far he's gained a few thousand negative euros from trading, buy hey. Temporary setback.

Couldn't believe my ears. I guess Allah trades in crypto himself.
There are shariah house financing options, where the bank purchases the house and sells it to the buyer in monthly installments at a higher price. In economic terms it usually comes out to more expensive than a mortgage, but does have some advantages. It is unaffected by interest rate swings, so you don't get a situation where a weak homeowner is suddenly bankrupted during a recession. And if there is a housing market price collapse, the bank is the one holding the house, and the bank is in a position to just maintain its current financial arrangement with its counterparty, unless the bank itself is in financial distress

We have similar things called "Land Contracts" in the United States (and probably other countries).
You make all the payments, you get the house. You miss one payment, you don't get the house.

It can be useful if the house being "sold" isn't very marketable, and person buying is unlikely to qualify for a mortgage.

Magmacube_tr

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Re: TURKISH ELECTIONS ARE... Over. All is lost. (TurkePol Thread?)
« Reply #224 on: September 17, 2023, 11:21:15 am »

As you may or may not know, bottom man are exempt from militiary service. You know why. The whole "unmanly" shtick. Tops are allowed though. So it is pretty much the Greek point of view.

The exemption previously required photogtaphic evidence; You essentially had to show a bunch of militiary doctors porn of you getting fucked in the ass.

But nowadays it has been reduced to a "pschological evaluation". With that I mean you and your family answering incredibly invasive questions such as the kinds of toys you played with in your childhood or if you use perfume or not. Questions to "determine" if you are a bottom or not. Which is bullshit, as you can tell.

And as you may or may not know... I am queer. I am planning to dodge the draft by being me. I have 0 respect or compassion for the militiary. I hate the idea of toiling under it.

Now, should I enter the evaluation? I am not effeminate at all. I am actually gender neutral on most regards. Being me is probably not enough for me to pass as a gay bottom.

Or should I fulfill the... older requirements?~. As a treat?

We all know why this rule exists. All man on the top most be bottoms themselves and they must be trying to eliminate the competition.

...

They have no words to label me. They have no concept to describe me. Their pathetic little framework falls apart at the sight of me. I am neither of the two things they use to describe the likes of me. Me. Me. Me.

I am the natural consequence of nature that they call an abberation. I am the living, breathing personification of the words "the nail that sticks out". I am the grim reminder that all they think they know and have been believing for millenia are all false.


Yea. I am all that. Any objections? Cool.
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