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Author Topic: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?  (Read 2975 times)

Urist Sonuvagimli

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Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« on: October 11, 2023, 09:47:25 am »

47.05, Win10.

I raid two towers and a vault. I bring all three slabs back to the mead hall. Put them in the chest in the basement. Then fast travel away and back, took about 3 in-game hours.

Two of the three slabs were gone. Checking the legends mode revealed that the slabs were "stored" back at their original locations. Just "stored", no mention of reclamation, some NPC treasure hunters stealing them etc etc. Slabs just teleported back it seems. Though when I came to the tower and the vault looking, the slabs were nowhere to be found.

How and why does that happen? Is this a bug or a feature? Is it possible to see these artifacts' new xyz location using dfHack?
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Rumrusher

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2023, 05:51:16 am »

slabs are artifacts and if you don't have them placed in a proper location which if I remember is like a display furniture like a display case or a pedestal sometimes a table in a civ zone the game wouldn't consider them placed in an area properly thus will be open to scattering about.
though the items should be scattered around the site and not totally gone for good.
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aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2024, 09:27:28 am »

This is a nightmare in the steam version too I really really hate the fact that things move around so much when you retire forts I'm not sure what good it does to simulate people moving things 5 ft and dropping them outside in the middle of the woods but oh well
And it doesn't matter if you do a big map or a small map there's tons of stuff scattered everywhere and I've noticed it's not even stuff that's in your fort sometimes the game generates new tons of items and scatters them everywhere which really pisses me off

And I know it generates new items and a ton of new items because I made a fort several forts and retired them with absolutely nothing but what was on the embark wagon and low and behold when I reimbark that site there's tons of s*** everywhere that I didn't even have. It's pretty annoying to play a game completely about micromanagement only to have 100% of your micromanagement totally destroyed every time you use the retirement feature

Rumrusher

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2024, 04:33:47 am »

This is a nightmare in the steam version too I really really hate the fact that things move around so much when you retire forts I'm not sure what good it does to simulate people moving things 5 ft and dropping them outside in the middle of the woods but oh well
And it doesn't matter if you do a big map or a small map there's tons of stuff scattered everywhere and I've noticed it's not even stuff that's in your fort sometimes the game generates new tons of items and scatters them everywhere which really pisses me off

And I know it generates new items and a ton of new items because I made a fort several forts and retired them with absolutely nothing but what was on the embark wagon and low and behold when I reimbark that site there's tons of s*** everywhere that I didn't even have. It's pretty annoying to play a game completely about micromanagement only to have 100% of your micromanagement totally destroyed every time you use the retirement feature
soo ............... this mess is mostly tied to unretiring is based off the reclaim gametype and that one scatters the fort on returning to the location. in the years of poking around figuring out how to get unretiring to not be that of a mess I ended up learning... I don't care about micromanaging thus found stockpiles is a pain and you're better off just stuffing everything into buildings .
though unretiring does have like one line of code that targets containers to spill them over and this could be sidestep by loading the fort with a different gametype which 10+ years ago was just adv mode to fort mode.
another factor with how unretiring works is clothes refresh which might lead to shedding of extra wears.
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I thought I would I had never hear my daughter's escapades from some boy...
DAMN YOU RUMRUSHER!!!!!!!!
"body swapping and YOU!"
Adventure in baby making!Adv Homes

aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2024, 09:14:51 am »

This is a nightmare in the steam version too I really really hate the fact that things move around so much when you retire forts I'm not sure what good it does to simulate people moving things 5 ft and dropping them outside in the middle of the woods but oh well
And it doesn't matter if you do a big map or a small map there's tons of stuff scattered everywhere and I've noticed it's not even stuff that's in your fort sometimes the game generates new tons of items and scatters them everywhere which really pisses me off

And I know it generates new items and a ton of new items because I made a fort several forts and retired them with absolutely nothing but what was on the embark wagon and low and behold when I reimbark that site there's tons of s*** everywhere that I didn't even have. It's pretty annoying to play a game completely about micromanagement only to have 100% of your micromanagement totally destroyed every time you use the retirement feature
soo ............... this mess is mostly tied to unretiring is based off the reclaim gametype and that one scatters the fort on returning to the location. in the years of poking around figuring out how to get unretiring to not be that of a mess I ended up learning... I don't care about micromanaging thus found stockpiles is a pain and you're better off just stuffing everything into buildings .
though unretiring does have like one line of code that targets containers to spill them over and this could be sidestep by loading the fort with a different gametype which 10+ years ago was just adv mode to fort mode.
another factor with how unretiring works is clothes refresh which might lead to shedding of extra wears.

I could deal with it if it just scattered just the items that were on that map at the time of retirement but it makes I swear hundred sometimes or more of new random items that shouldn't exist there like an example I retired before with little to no items and upon retiring it the whole landscape and I mean almost every tile had a book parchment or some piece of junk on it and the bigger your fort and the more stuff you have the worse it is

Rumrusher

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2024, 10:58:15 am »

This is a nightmare in the steam version too I really really hate the fact that things move around so much when you retire forts I'm not sure what good it does to simulate people moving things 5 ft and dropping them outside in the middle of the woods but oh well
And it doesn't matter if you do a big map or a small map there's tons of stuff scattered everywhere and I've noticed it's not even stuff that's in your fort sometimes the game generates new tons of items and scatters them everywhere which really pisses me off

And I know it generates new items and a ton of new items because I made a fort several forts and retired them with absolutely nothing but what was on the embark wagon and low and behold when I reimbark that site there's tons of s*** everywhere that I didn't even have. It's pretty annoying to play a game completely about micromanagement only to have 100% of your micromanagement totally destroyed every time you use the retirement feature
soo ............... this mess is mostly tied to unretiring is based off the reclaim gametype and that one scatters the fort on returning to the location. in the years of poking around figuring out how to get unretiring to not be that of a mess I ended up learning... I don't care about micromanaging thus found stockpiles is a pain and you're better off just stuffing everything into buildings .
though unretiring does have like one line of code that targets containers to spill them over and this could be sidestep by loading the fort with a different gametype which 10+ years ago was just adv mode to fort mode.
another factor with how unretiring works is clothes refresh which might lead to shedding of extra wears.

I could deal with it if it just scattered just the items that were on that map at the time of retirement but it makes I swear hundred sometimes or more of new random items that shouldn't exist there like an example I retired before with little to no items and upon retiring it the whole landscape and I mean almost every tile had a book parchment or some piece of junk on it and the bigger your fort and the more stuff you have the worse it is
so if I remember one thing with df50 that it created a bunch of extra hidden artifacts that possibly due to not being placed on a pedestal/table in a civ zone it  scatters the stuff.
I can also see books scattering all over if the bookshelves don't keep the (artifact like) books in place on top of the chests filled with scrolls and quires spilling out due to some how chests in player forts just don't stay built I guess?
though I guess one way to deal with artifact scatter is to get someone to hold all these artifacts and park them in the fort.
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I thought I would I had never hear my daughter's escapades from some boy...
DAMN YOU RUMRUSHER!!!!!!!!
"body swapping and YOU!"
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brewer bob

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2024, 11:59:35 am »

I can also see books scattering all over if the bookshelves don't keep the (artifact like) books in place on top of the chests filled with scrolls and quires spilling out due to some how chests in player forts just don't stay built I guess?

This reminded me of the book catastrophe we had in Waterlures (v 0.47.05) after a retire/unretire thing. One player had stolen brought literally thousands of books from another fort in adventure mode. And since most of them were artifact books, well they scattered all around the map upon unretiring. To prevent this from happening during the next retire/unretire, I placed them all on a pedestal in the library... It was something my wrist still has nightmares of. Manually selecting all the 3000+ books to be put on display. One by one. Click, click, click... Then finally watching the capybara men haul them there one at a time... Yeah... Good times. :P

aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2024, 06:34:12 pm »

This is a nightmare in the steam version too I really really hate the fact that things move around so much when you retire forts I'm not sure what good it does to simulate people moving things 5 ft and dropping them outside in the middle of the woods but oh well
And it doesn't matter if you do a big map or a small map there's tons of stuff scattered everywhere and I've noticed it's not even stuff that's in your fort sometimes the game generates new tons of items and scatters them everywhere which really pisses me off

And I know it generates new items and a ton of new items because I made a fort several forts and retired them with absolutely nothing but what was on the embark wagon and low and behold when I reimbark that site there's tons of s*** everywhere that I didn't even have. It's pretty annoying to play a game completely about micromanagement only to have 100% of your micromanagement totally destroyed every time you use the retirement feature
soo ............... this mess is mostly tied to unretiring is based off the reclaim gametype and that one scatters the fort on returning to the location. in the years of poking around figuring out how to get unretiring to not be that of a mess I ended up learning... I don't care about micromanaging thus found stockpiles is a pain and you're better off just stuffing everything into buildings .
though unretiring does have like one line of code that targets containers to spill them over and this could be sidestep by loading the fort with a different gametype which 10+ years ago was just adv mode to fort mode.
another factor with how unretiring works is clothes refresh which might lead to shedding of extra wears.

I could deal with it if it just scattered just the items that were on that map at the time of retirement but it makes I swear hundred sometimes or more of new random items that shouldn't exist there like an example I retired before with little to no items and upon retiring it the whole landscape and I mean almost every tile had a book parchment or some piece of junk on it and the bigger your fort and the more stuff you have the worse it is
so if I remember one thing with df50 that it created a bunch of extra hidden artifacts that possibly due to not being placed on a pedestal/table in a civ zone it  scatters the stuff.
I can also see books scattering all over if the bookshelves don't keep the (artifact like) books in place on top of the chests filled with scrolls and quires spilling out due to some how chests in player forts just don't stay built I guess?
though I guess one way to deal with artifact scatter is to get someone to hold all these artifacts and park them in the fort.

No no no there's there's a misunderstanding here I retired the fort with absolutely nothing but what was in the wagon upon embark I reimbarked and there were books everywhere all I had done was build a library I designated a library and then retired the fort ..

mikekchar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2024, 07:08:03 pm »

On unretire all containers are emptied and their contents scattered randomly.  This is intentional behavior, not a bug.  Originally when Toady implemented unretire he had the idea that a player controlled fortress had been influenced by "unknown forces".  After you retire the fortress those "unknown forces" leave and your dwarfs go a bit crazy, chucking everything everywhere.  It's a feature, not a bug (no matter how much I dislike the feature).

I'm hoping he has a change of heart as soon as he has some time and removes that behavior because it basically sucks and makes no sense (especially you can come back 10 years later and things are *still* strewn all over the place).
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aSpatula66

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2024, 07:13:56 pm »

I don't think all items are scattered, only artifacts get scattered (when unretiring, that is. All items are scattered on a reclaim.) Containers do have their contents dropped on the floor, but not scattered.
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aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2024, 09:37:05 pm »

That's what I'm saying though I didn't produce anything I can't really get it to do it again quite like that I'm not sure what happened all I did was designate a library and then I brought an adventure there left a book then unretired the fort and it was just tons of weird stuff everywhere that I didn't build maybe people brought it there and dropped all that crap there cuz it was I was a library??????

aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2024, 10:05:07 pm »

Oh my God I noticed how it was doing it or at least I know how it's doing doing some of it I have an embark with nothing at it and I built some shops I built a butcher shop it had nothing in it when I retired I come to it as an adventure and it's filled with elf body parts now I bet I go back to my fort and now the damn butcher shop's going to be filled with elf body parts I didn't put no body parts there but they're going to be there when I retire when I go back to the fort 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣


Yep I went back to the fort in fort mode and yep I'll be that butcher shop was still filled with all those those brand new elf parts that I didn't put there and that Fort that went crazy I must have did something something weird must have happened in between visits with the adventurer that it just added a ton of asinine items it's at least an interesting way to get weird and unique items at your fort now I can make a bunch of elf item things I guess is kind of cool

Rumrusher

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2024, 01:17:51 am »

Oh my God I noticed how it was doing it or at least I know how it's doing doing some of it I have an embark with nothing at it and I built some shops I built a butcher shop it had nothing in it when I retired I come to it as an adventure and it's filled with elf body parts now I bet I go back to my fort and now the damn butcher shop's going to be filled with elf body parts I didn't put no body parts there but they're going to be there when I retire when I go back to the fort 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣


Yep I went back to the fort in fort mode and yep I'll be that butcher shop was still filled with all those those brand new elf parts that I didn't put there and that Fort that went crazy I must have did something something weird must have happened in between visits with the adventurer that it just added a ton of asinine items it's at least an interesting way to get weird and unique items at your fort now I can make a bunch of elf item things I guess is kind of cool
so one thing to keep one sane in all this is ... I guess leaving the fort out of your control will lead to the citizens to do what they want.
which with libraries they attract scholars and visitors around the world to visit and trade and add books to the place.
so it's not a different version of the save and load feature and more 'ok time to turn this site into something similar to the pre-gen sites in adv mode with all the pros and cons of doing that.'
that butcher stuff though is new I haven't heard of anything like that before.
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I thought I would I had never hear my daughter's escapades from some boy...
DAMN YOU RUMRUSHER!!!!!!!!
"body swapping and YOU!"
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aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2024, 04:52:40 am »

Oh my God I noticed how it was doing it or at least I know how it's doing doing some of it I have an embark with nothing at it and I built some shops I built a butcher shop it had nothing in it when I retired I come to it as an adventure and it's filled with elf body parts now I bet I go back to my fort and now the damn butcher shop's going to be filled with elf body parts I didn't put no body parts there but they're going to be there when I retire when I go back to the fort 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣


Yep I went back to the fort in fort mode and yep I'll be that butcher shop was still filled with all those those brand new elf parts that I didn't put there and that Fort that went crazy I must have did something something weird must have happened in between visits with the adventurer that it just added a ton of asinine items it's at least an interesting way to get weird and unique items at your fort now I can make a bunch of elf item things I guess is kind of cool
so one thing to keep one sane in all this is ... I guess leaving the fort out of your control will lead to the citizens to do what they want.
which with libraries they attract scholars and visitors around the world to visit and trade and add books to the place.
so it's not a different version of the save and load feature and more 'ok time to turn this site into something similar to the pre-gen sites in adv mode with all the pros and cons of doing that.'
that butcher stuff though is new I haven't heard of anything like that before.
Yeah I don't know I was playing vanilla goblins and necromancer elfs attacked so maybe maybe they did it for some reason I have no idea and they butchered them ?

aradar

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Re: Why do atrifact slabs get "relocated" in Adventurer mode?
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2024, 05:37:38 am »

Oh my God I noticed how it was doing it or at least I know how it's doing doing some of it I have an embark with nothing at it and I built some shops I built a butcher shop it had nothing in it when I retired I come to it as an adventure and it's filled with elf body parts now I bet I go back to my fort and now the damn butcher shop's going to be filled with elf body parts I didn't put no body parts there but they're going to be there when I retire when I go back to the fort 😂🤣🤣🤣🤣


Yep I went back to the fort in fort mode and yep I'll be that butcher shop was still filled with all those those brand new elf parts that I didn't put there and that Fort that went crazy I must have did something something weird must have happened in between visits with the adventurer that it just added a ton of asinine items it's at least an interesting way to get weird and unique items at your fort now I can make a bunch of elf item things I guess is kind of cool
so one thing to keep one sane in all this is ... I guess leaving the fort out of your control will lead to the citizens to do what they want.
which with libraries they attract scholars and visitors around the world to visit and trade and add books to the place.
so it's not a different version of the save and load feature and more 'ok time to turn this site into something similar to the pre-gen sites in adv mode with all the pros and cons of doing that.'
that butcher stuff though is new I haven't heard of anything like that before.
Yeah I don't know I was playing vanilla goblins and necromancer elfs attacked so maybe maybe they did it for some reason I have no idea and they butchered them ?

Okay now I know there's something weird going on with going back and forth from retiring a fort and going into adventure mode this time I went in and I just went nuts and started smashing everybody in the face with a hammer I killed like three people and then got killed myself I quit and came back into that game as an adventure again and the bodies were still there after I quit the bodies were still there??? They shouldn't have been there right like that doesn't make sense.
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