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[Derakon]

When a dwarf makes a pig-tail cloth sock, he gets two quality modifiers: one for the quality of his clothesmaking job, and one for the quality of the cloth itself (from a previous weaving job). Similarly, when items get decorated, the value of the decoration is independent of the value of the base item. I propose chaining them, as followis:

* For items that are made from other "base" items that have qualities: the value multiplier of the crafting job cannot exceed the value multiplier of the base item. That is, you are "held back" by using shoddy materials.

* For items that are decorating other items: the value multiplier can't exceed the decorated item's value multiplier + 1. That is, you can make things better by decorating them, but you can't dress up a badly-made item by making it shiny.

This encourages players to in-house more of their development, since all imported cloth is cruddy machine-made stuff. It also makes it a bit harder to make valuable goods. Of course, to make it work at all well, dwarves would need to prioritize the input materials they use by quality, which I propose would go as follows: the quality levels are mapped onto the skill levels, to create a quality priority. That is, a Dabbling Clothesmaker would prioritize using poorly-made materials; a Proficient one would prioritize finely-crafted materials, and a Legendary would prioritize masterpiece materials. All would use what is available if they can't find their desired quality range.

Finally, I suggest adding quality levels to more items. A high-quality bar of metal has few or no impurities. A high-quality rock is large, round, and crack-free. A high-quality bag of dye doesn't have miscellaneous bits of plant in it, and the dye itself has been finely-ground. A high-quality Plump Helmet was carefully picked, has no bruises, and was cared for properly while it was growing. And so on.

The rules for limiting output qualities might be a bit drastic. The overall goal is to encourage getting dwarves to high levels of skill in all available labors, and to make it harder to explode your wealth in the first year or two (so that "money" remains a problem for longer). Thoughts?

[Dame de la Licorne]

This seems like it would work, and from the way the labors are set up it would be the next logical step.  Currently, it's far too easy to get stuff worth a great deal from using imported goods.  Also, it would tie in well with another thread where someone suggested that experience in one job, give a small amount of experience in a related job. Ie, if a dwarf is a skilled wood-cutter, then he also has some experience in fighting with an axe.  I'll try to find the relevant thread.  In any case, I like the idea.

[Draco18s]

Actually it was woodcutter <--> carpenter, but yes.  That thread.

[Dame de la Licorne]

After much searching I have found the thread I mentioned in my previous post!  Here it is: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=4931.0

[Erk]

I am not sure about the quality cap thing, although I might be convinced it is good. Otherwise I heartily agree with this idea, it sounds excellent and I know I'd have hours of OCD fun trying to make items out of fully masterwork components.

Prioritising ingredients used based on dwarf skill should be part of the game either way, I think, but would suit this adjustment even more.

We already see this exact pattern with cloth, more than you have stated. Were you aware dyejobs have quality levels?

Process plants> thread (no quality) > dye (has a quality level) > weave (has another quality level) > craft (has another quality level). That's why a +pig tail sock+ can have a hugely varied value. I love it and it makes me quite OCD about my craft qualities. If thread could also have a quality level, and pig tails also a quality level, and my quality crafters automatically chose the nicest stuff while my trainees picked the dregs, I would be in dwarfy bliss.

The only thing is, it should then be easier to see hte quality levels of every stage of production, and the item quality tags (eg. +stuff+) should reflect the average quality, not hte highest quality or the quality of the last step of production. With cloth products it's the latter. Perhaps on View item you could see a list of "components" and the quality of their creation. For example for a +pig tail sock+,

+pig tail thread+
*dimple dye* (representing an exceptional dye job)
+pig tail cloth+
+pig tail sock+

[Virex]

Wouldn't it be less of a clutter if you'd represent it like:
+pig tail sock+ - +*++  ?
That way you don't have to display the materials used, but only the quality of each step.

[Erk]

You think having every item in a list showing as +pig tail sock++-+*+ is less cluttery than having it shown under a submenu?

[Draco18s]

Trader screen:

(*+#=*<<*Giant Cave     641510*

Hmm...
(Using # instead of the gem-star)

[Neonivek]

I disagree that there should be a limit to how much a decoration can increase an objects worth with exception to possible an item being unable to hold any more objects.

Fact of the matter is... a block of wood would still be more valuable if you studded it with Diamonds and at no point would adding more diamonds ever hit a limit.

Now, I can imagine poor quality of goods decreasing the effect of decoration so the block of wood only gets half the effect of the diamond... but not eliminating the price change at any point.

[Draco18s]

I'm trying to figure out why people stud things in the first place.  The lack of control is one thing, but I mean, I seem to get enough value out of other things....

[Erk]

I'm trying to figure out why people stud things in the first place.  The lack of control is one thing, but I mean, I seem to get enough value out of other things....

Because it's great fun. You get the same kind of images as engraving, and it's amusing to see how valuable a chair can get. And your dwarves have happy thoughts for looking at expensive items.

I don't have a problem with stud quality being capped by item quality. If you have a -limestone throne-, you can stud it with all the gems you like, but you won't get better than a +<-limestone throne->+. That doesn't literally mean a cap on the value, unless you eventually stud it with every material in the game, but you couldn't do a masterwork studding job on such a poor quality chair.

Actually though, it would be extra-cool if the only exception to the cap quality was a masterpiece. So you could see -<-limestone throne->- or +<-limestone throne->+ but not *<-limestone throne->* or =<-limestone throne->=: these latter two would default to +<- level. However, if you got a masterpiece, you would get a #<-limestone throne->#. The master crafter is capable of making something impressive even from poor materials.

[Granite26]

I'm trying to figure out why people stud things in the first place.  The lack of control is one thing, but I mean, I seem to get enough value out of other things....

If you've got a pile of lead and a pile of mudstone goblets...

It's a good way to get rid of otherwise useless metals...

(Thank goodness there's no lead poisoning!)

[Draco18s]

(Thank goodness there's no lead poisoning!)

Yet.