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Author Topic: Roguelikes  (Read 4087 times)

Keiseth

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2008, 11:36:04 pm »

(you face large numbers of enemies that just attack you. No tactics, no special attacks. YAWN.)

Precisely! I have a couple of suggestions, food for thought or what-not. A standard Roguelike might have an event like this:

The player is a caster-class. As they enter the next room they spot a goblin. Out of mana, the player retreats momentarily, allows a few points to regenerate, enters the room and slays the goblin with a fire arrow.

Acceptable, and maybe a complete Roguelike, but not at all unique and hardly interesting. Consider this different scenario.

The player is still a caster-class. They walk out of a corridor and into a large dining hall. A particularly vicious goblin spots the player and begins to attack. The player is low on mana and has perhaps enough for two spells, though history indicates this goblin will probably withstand three or four.

Instead, the player launches a fire arrow at a nearby table, lighting it on fire. The goblin approaches and is adjacent to the player. Using his last spell before being attacked, the player casts a telekinesis spell and mentally throws the flaming table into the goblin from the side, at point blank range, killing him instantly.


Interaction with an even slightly detailed environment and "clever casting" for mages are usually great ideas. I think to think of wizards as the sort that would rely on their brains, so they should be capable of more than a few brute force spells. Incursion did this pretty well; an easy, level one spell called "[Nostrums?] Magical Aura" would give the illusion of an item being extremely powerful and desirable, no matter what it actually is. Monsters would try to take the item (or weapon!) and use it (or wield it!) You could trick them into equipping a cursed, weak weapon and attacking at a significant disadvantage. It requires some forethought and a bit of cleverness; always good things to have in a game!

Some simple physics would be good, too. Dwarf Fortress' combat isn't extremely complicated, but the effects of simple actions have a multitude of effects. Hitting somebody and sending them flying into a wall / off a cliff / into their friend can be both fun and useful, for instance. If I remember, the first "Ys" (an action/rpg) got significantly higher scores after a minor upgrade caused knock-back when you hit an enemy. It's simple, but strangely fulfilling to see your attacks have more effect.

(Edit: Uh... sorry. That wasn't a wall of text the way I imagined typing it.)
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bigmcstrongmuscle

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2008, 11:44:10 pm »

I'm a Nethack fiend. Yeah, there are a lot of gotchas, but there are ways of learning about those problems before they arise. (When I learned about the Oracle, I made a series of Healers whose sole purpose in life was to obsessively consult him for various hints, which I then wrote into a text file. Most helpful thing I ever did.) Best character to date had just turned the Wizard of Yendor to stone with a cockatrice corpse, blasted the statue into fragments, and grabbed the Book of the Dead from the rubble (The last object you need to get to the Amulet of Yendor). Took off my gauntlets of power to identify the book without unequipping the cockatrice corpse.

"You turn to stone. Would you like your possessions identified?"

Yeah.

As for something that would be cool in a roguelike, useful improvised weapons. I have always wanted to break a chair over an orc's head, trap a floating eye in a cloak, or throw a live goblin into a crowd of his friends.
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qwertyuiopas

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2008, 09:50:06 am »

About a year ago, I found DF BECAUSE I was interested in roguelikes and it was on a list somewhere.
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Fualkner

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2008, 10:23:52 am »

About a year ago, I found DF BECAUSE I was interested in roguelikes and it was on a list somewhere.

Huh, same for me. I wouldn't call it a roguelike thought... not at all. It's in a class of it's own.
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Lord Dullard

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2008, 11:21:51 am »

I'm a Nethack fiend. Yeah, there are a lot of gotchas, but there are ways of learning about those problems before they arise. (When I learned about the Oracle, I made a series of Healers whose sole purpose in life was to obsessively consult him for various hints, which I then wrote into a text file. Most helpful thing I ever did.) Best character to date had just turned the Wizard of Yendor to stone with a cockatrice corpse, blasted the statue into fragments, and grabbed the Book of the Dead from the rubble (The last object you need to get to the Amulet of Yendor). Took off my gauntlets of power to identify the book without unequipping the cockatrice corpse.

"You turn to stone. Would you like your possessions identified?"

Yeah.

As for something that would be cool in a roguelike, useful improvised weapons. I have always wanted to break a chair over an orc's head, trap a floating eye in a cloak, or throw a live goblin into a crowd of his friends.

YASD
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Keiseth

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2008, 02:04:05 pm »

Huh, same for me. I wouldn't call it a roguelike thought... not at all. It's in a class of it's own.

A Dwarflike, or DFlike!
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Dragooble

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2008, 11:08:32 am »

excuse me for being a complete and total noob but...
whats nethack?
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A creature the size of europe can occupy only one tile.

bigmcstrongmuscle

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Re: Roguelikes
« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2008, 12:56:42 am »

www.nethack.org

It's probably the most stereotypically roguelike of all the roguelike games (Although Angband fans are welcome to disagree).  The object of the game is to take your intrepid @, get him to the bottom of the perilous Mazes of Menace, steal the Amulet of Yendor from the Temple of the Dark God Moloch, return it to the surface, and finally sacrifice it to your deity of choice in exchange for immortality.

It's renowned for having a weird sense of humor and a lot of ways to die. If you've never played a roguelike before, its got permadeath like DF's Adventure mode, to encourage you not to do stupid things in the hope that they'll work. It also has a lot of very intricate subsystems  and special-case code that you'll probably never plumb the full depths of.  My favorite is what happens when a pet pit fiend falls into a pit trap.  "Your pit fiend falls into the pit trap! How pitiful! This is the pits!"

EDIT: Qualification
« Last Edit: July 16, 2008, 12:58:19 am by bigmcstrongmuscle »
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