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Author Topic: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!  (Read 2726 times)

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Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« on: August 28, 2007, 05:34:00 pm »

Or, at least, that's what the devnow page says. Not sure if I read it right, though. Anyway, I'm pretty sure this means some random dwarf just can't come along to proclaim himself random generic noble number 1.
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Gakidou

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2007, 06:10:00 pm »

But my nobles already have an appointment with the magma chamber!
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Mechanoid

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2007, 07:37:00 pm »

Hopefully you can assign multiple dwarves to be the same noble. That way you can get 5 trade ministers and have more bargaining power.  :D
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Lightning4

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 08:06:00 pm »

5 kings/queens for the masochists!
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ravensword227

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 08:13:00 pm »

That sounds unfortunate - that'd be more like sandbox mode.  I hope there is some kind of a balance to this complete this sort of thing.

EDIT:

I suppose it is more realistic.  I guess I'm just resistant to change...

[ August 28, 2007: Message edited by: ravensword227 ]

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Gaulgath

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2007, 08:27:00 pm »

What I'm curious is: How do you "appoint" a noble exactly? Can you just take a random peasent and say "You're the broker. Here's your room, have fun."? Is there a prerequisite?
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Sowelu

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2007, 12:12:00 am »

That sounds like fun.  The more skilled a noble gets, the more superior he starts to feel.  And the more famous he gets, the more he can demand from the justice department.

So you make some guy a trade minister, and he's just a peasant, nobody listens to his demands...but once he starts to boost your income, and gets better at it, he starts to think he can get a better room than everyone else...

Have to balance skilled nobles against keeping control.  Do you want uneducated plebs that can't challenge your mysterious overseeing power?  Or do you want to give them the power to have their own kings and queens, even at the risk of bowing to them yourself?

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Eagle of Fire

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2007, 02:11:00 am »

When I was young, we had a TV show for children. It was only stories after stories, much like bed stories.

On one of those stories, there was a princess... But they wanted to be sure that she was really a princess. So what they did was place a pea under a matress to see if she would sleep well. She didn't, and they added a second matress every night until 7 nights passed and she never could sleep well because of the pea under the first matress...

Nobles...   :roll:

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KrunkSplein

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2007, 09:09:00 am »

my only concern is that this seems to have pushed back release by a good while   :(
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Retales

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2007, 12:10:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Gaulgath:
<STRONG>What I'm curious is: How do you "appoint" a noble exactly? Can you just take a random peasent and say "You're the broker. Here's your room, have fun."? Is there a prerequisite?</STRONG>

Of course I really can't and don't know how it works, but maybe once the noble requirements have been met (minted coins for the bookkeeper, for example), you can appoint a noble. Some would propably require the dwarf to be legendary in a skill. It would be quite fitting for your legendary miner to become the Miner's Guild representative.

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Slartibartfast

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2007, 01:21:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by KrunkSplein:
<STRONG>my only concern is that this seems to have pushed back release by a good while    :(</STRONG>

Noble changes were already scheduled for the next release, so it doesn't really push anything back, just means that it will take longer than you thought.

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Gakidou

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2007, 01:33:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Retales:
<STRONG>
Of course I really can't and don't know how it works, but maybe once the noble requirements have been met (minted coins for the bookkeeper, for example), you can appoint a noble. Some would propably require the dwarf to be legendary in a skill. It would be quite fitting for your legendary miner to become the Miner's Guild representative.</STRONG>

Great, another way for our productive legendaries to be incapacitated by the nobility!

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BurnedToast

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2007, 03:13:00 pm »

I'm just guessing here, but if I was to be designing it what I would do is make the faux-noble positions appointed (things like bookkeeper, broker, trade minister, and so on) while the 'true nobility' such as the duke and king and such would show up like they do now (or have some other system of showing up rather then being appointed).

Maybe dwarves could be made eligible for true nobility based on becoming legendary and/or a number of enemy kills or something.

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Toady One

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2007, 03:36:00 pm »

So what I'm working with now (subject to change):

You have 3 appointment slots that you start with:  manager, broker, bookkeeper.  You can appoint any worker to these positions, and your worker can keep their regular job.  I haven't done the sheriff yet, but you can appoint one once you get 20 dwarves.  You don't have to, but there should be downsides to that.

There is also an expedition leader.  This isn't 'you', it's just the expedition leader.  If the expedition leaders die, the dwarves will select another one, based on the candidates' skills and their friendships.  Once you get further along, this leader becomes the mayor and will be elected more regularly.  For any complaint meetings, there are some conversation skills that can augment the effects of the meeting.

Leader/Mayor: for now, just takes complaints from people, as it is now.  The new venting complaint gives unhappy units another chance to get their mind at ease.  As your fortress gets larger, you might want your leader to do less work so they can take more complaints.  If the game can detect poor decisions later on (an easy one is a cave-in, for example), the leader would be somebody to blame.  If each decision you make with the interface could ultimately be tied to an appointed dwarf or the leader, it would be fun to let the blame and accolades go around.

Manager:  lets you do work orders and takes complaints based on availability of work and passes them on to the mayor (before guilds, which are gutted).  Once your fortress gets large enough, a manager must validate work orders with a job in their office so that you'll want to free them up from other jobs.  I haven't had a chance to test this out yet, so we'll see how annoying that is vs. sleep/eat and so on, but these appointed nobles should be doing things instead of doing nothing.  There's an organizational skill that the manager has, though I'm still working out how that works with the manager screen.

Broker:  gives you value information based on their skill at appraisal.  Uses conversation skills at the depot to perform trades.  Cannot trade without *somebody* at the depot, but it won't have to be your broker if you can't get them there.  I'll have to handle how that works, but that's the idea.  The broker also runs your shops before dwarves handle them, as it is now (bookkeeper no longer does it).

Bookkeeper:  the bookkeeper handles the stocks screen.  If you want precision when the numbers get larger, you'll need to let them do an office/stockpile wandering job that works with their record keeping skill.

These dwarves will also meet with the various critter diplomats that come in as they do now, but I haven't done that yet.

The various guilds and other extraneous nobles are now temporarily gone.  We'll see what I get to, but it'll all come back in over time.  The guild leaders should be selected by the guild members from within.  A few things like the dungeon master and alchemist are still floating around and kind of the same.  Things like the house of death and the weapon cults won't be back until I get shells of religions in.

The baron/tax collector/hammerer are still external.  The idea is to have the baron turn into a count then a duke as your fortress improves.  I'd consider doing various other things with this (like having the king turn one of your dwarves into a baron instead of bringing in his cousin or whatever), but not yet.

Hopefully, the end result after a lot of tweaking will be fewer nobles, and the annoying nobility aspects of the appointments are mostly gone.  Things like "treasurer" and so on are just going to be name changes based on the size of your fortress.  Depending on how much the appointed dwarves are tasked, there might need to be additional subordinates or something in a 100+ dwarf fort, but that'll depend on play-testing.

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thvaz

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Re: Woo! You can now appoint nobles!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2007, 03:48:00 pm »

This is absolutely amazing. It is all I ever wanted concerning nobles.

[ August 29, 2007: Message edited by: thvaz ]

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