Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: Dwarven Nursery?  (Read 4621 times)

VeryBadThingsDownHere

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Dwarven Nursery?
« on: July 21, 2008, 12:47:29 am »

[TL;DR: Add a place to keep babies and a labor task to take care of them]

Ok, I like to think I'm a pretty reasonable manager of Dwarven affairs here at Standardteachers;  wealth is high, dwarves are happy, workshops are being workshopped.  Pretty much everyone does what I say, trusting my judgement.  Sometimes I screw up, but only out of carelessness,  (Sorry Kadol, we'll get your remains out of that magma channel one of these days) but I've been pondering this little hypothetical situation for quite a while now.

Before I get down to it though, let me set the background.  My military started as a couple of marksdwarves [carefully] assigned to clean carp from the small river going through the area.  They were doing a good job - but what was really strange is they were Elite Marksdwarves in practically a year, just from shootin carp - and a little spywork shows that they've been shooting at some messed-up invulnerable or something carps at the edge of our territory for quite a while.  And they're getting experience from it!  I guess it makes sense though, considering they're doing what they would do at an archery range.

Anyway.  So I got these elite marksdwarves, and I don't need em shooting at glitched fishies no more, so I take em off duty and start broadening my militaristic options.  A couple dozen broken necks later and I got three hammerdwarves and three sworddwarves sparring away in the barracks.

This is about the time the trouble begins.  I'm not one to enforce no-touchie policies like no kissing in the halls - if a Dwarf is going to make babies, you're not going to stop them - but it seems that all my military Dwarves seem to be having a Dwarven Orgy in the barracks, and they pop out babies like a McUrist's pops out +Fried Kitten Biscuits+.  I'm not asking any of them who, or why, they've decided to take up a family life.

But a responsible manager's gotta plan ahead.

Let's say goblin ambush #7 makes its way to Standardteachers, and my military goes out to play some poker.  But wait!  They're all carrying their [not really] bloody babies with them.  Now a lucky Goblin gets a shot off at the baby, and it is a [really] bloody baby.  Or worse yet, the shot hits the mother through the left eye, spleen, and shoots down the spine like its a waterslide and the baby crawls around for a bit, only to be pulled/hacked apart by the gobbo melee crew.  Or it crawls into the magma shaft, or gets eaten by a Rhesus Macaque, or some other horribly gruesome fate you've implemented into this hellhole.

Now what kind of parent takes their kid with them into close combat!?  Apparently these Dwarves do, because nobody gave them the brains and/or decency to properly take care of their children.  And try as I might, I can't get the mommies to pry their hands off the little buggers for nothin.

So all I is askin for is a little pigpen where we can put the kids.  Maybe add a new job task, Child Care.  It'll make the peasants happy because they have a job, it'll make the parents happy because they don't have to watch the brat every hour of every day, and it'll make the babies happy because they'll have intact organs.  Also, that way if the mother dies somehow the baby isn't doomed along with her.

What do ya say?
Logged
Why don't you kids finish that barrel before opening a new one!?

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2008, 01:40:24 am »

Dwarven Babies soul source of survival are their mothers and without them they feel suicidal until they become children.

For goodness sake just give that woman Maternal leave!
Logged

max

  • Bay Watcher
  • d/dx optimus=?
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2008, 07:36:16 am »

I must say, I agree with both of you. The simplicity of maternal-leave or the innovation of a nursery. But why does it have to be either or? I can picture it as well. You'll build a 5x5 building similar to a Depot that can toggle a requesting child carer. I think there should be trade-offs to this convenience compared to simple maternal-leave. Perhaps a personality would be placed on the child that says, "Is quick to anger." etc
Logged
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
-Evelyn Beatrice Hall

Othob Rithol

  • Bay Watcher
  • aka Dark Snathi, Rain & Tom Bombadil
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2008, 11:58:12 am »

A children's creche is a great idea and a worthy additiob to the game.

I do hate the fact that I have to use some rather sexist policies in my control of the military/outside labors to avoid losing the kids. In my forts, a female can be placed into the Guard, but only males end up in the real military. I apply the same limit to outside professions (herbalist, woodcutter, fisher etc) after having lost soooo mannnnny babies to ambushes and snatchers.

I'd like to see the baby be taken to the nursery.
The family often comes to visit.
A few dwarves set to a new labor care for the kids.
Upon reaching childhood the kid can run laps between parents and the creche.
If the child does not receive enough "visits" before adulthood they could develop issues.
In the case of dead parents, a sibling or close friend of the parent(s) could 'adopt' the child and be designated as its guardian.

This has a number of really good benefits:
The children could develop relationships with one another.
No more traffic jams every time Mrs. Urista McYearlyBreeder enters or leaves her workshop.
Obvious increased safety for the kids.
The possibility of expansion into some sort of schooling system, including field trips.

sweitx

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sun Berry McSunshine
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2008, 02:43:11 pm »

The possibility of expansion into some sort of schooling system, including field trips.

"On your right, is a pit of nobles being starved to death for being a jackass.  And on your right is a lever that... DON'Y PULL THAT LEVER!"


I can see that happening.
Logged
One of the toads decided to go for a swim in the moat - presumably because he could path through the moat to my dwarves. He is not charging in, just loitering in the moat.

The toad is having a nice relaxing swim.
The goblin mounted on his back, however, is drowning.

LegacyCWAL

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2008, 02:55:13 pm »

The problem with maternity leave comes when Dumat McShooty, Goddess of Death, decides to have 10 kids in 9 years.  And yes, I've seen dwarves do that.

Even if nothing else is changed, at the absolute minimum they could have the father take care of the baby if the mother is military or Guard (or dead).  That'd still leave a few babies in the line of fire, but at least some would be taken care of.  It's seriously depressing for the future work slaves contributing citizens of your fortress to have their mom shot out from under them and then be left starving, dehydrated, and wandering around on the bloody, festering remains of their mother as daddy ignores them.
Logged
HIDE THE WOMEN AND DROWN THE CHILDREN, THE BARON HAS ARRIVED.

Granite26

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2008, 03:05:14 pm »

Sexist Bastard says : Through most of history and prehistory, it was the guys doing the fighting and hunting, because girls are smaller and spent 9 months of the year knocked up.  The very concept of women's work is stuff you can do with a baby on your hip.  The Gatherer versus the Hunter at its base level.

It seems silly to have a historical simulation, crazy vehement arguments over gunpowder and other mechanics being 'in period' and then try to play PC over the sexes, especially where serious empowerment and power differences exist.

LegacyCWAL

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2008, 03:12:31 pm »

So your suggestion is to take away the ability to assign female dwarves to anything except Plant Gathering, Cooking, Brewing, and Cleaning?
Logged
HIDE THE WOMEN AND DROWN THE CHILDREN, THE BARON HAS ARRIVED.

Puzzlemaker

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2008, 03:15:26 pm »

So your suggestion is to take away the ability to assign female dwarves to anything except Plant Gathering, Cooking, Brewing, and Cleaning?

I think he meant that he wants to take away the ability to assign female dwarves to anything except certain jobs while they are carrying a baby, which makes sense.  A nursery can help you get around that too.  Maybe fathers can also carry the baby sometimes.
Logged
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of the mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one.

codezero

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2008, 04:34:34 pm »

Maybe a sex icon (not me, like in the animals screen) next to their names could stop you from drafting them in the first place.
Logged

Dame de la Licorne

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cats? Check. FPS? Uh-oh...
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2008, 04:53:37 pm »

Maybe a sex icon (not me, like in the animals screen) next to their names could stop you from drafting them in the first place.

They do have it, it's in the 'g' screen for each dwarf, where you can view their skills.
Logged
If software was real world, then it'd be something equivalent of hitting a nail with a hammer and having a building collapse on the other side of town.

Don't worry people, sometimes -moments occur

LegacyCWAL

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2008, 05:53:08 pm »

I think he meant that he wants to take away the ability to assign female dwarves to anything except certain jobs while they are carrying a baby, which makes sense.  A nursery can help you get around that too.  Maybe fathers can also carry the baby sometimes.
I would greatly support having the father carrying the baby when need be (seriously, attending a party while your firstborn child wanders lost, starving, and dehydrated around the festering pool of blood that used to be its mother?).

However, if they're going to take away the ability to do certain jobs while carrying a baby, they should take away the ability to do those jobs at all because that's what would happen anyways.  Why would you let a dwarf be a carpenter or metalsmith - or soldier - when you know she's liable to quit for ten years and take all that XP with her.  You wouldn't.  So if they're going to turn them off part-time, they should turn them off permanently.
Logged
HIDE THE WOMEN AND DROWN THE CHILDREN, THE BARON HAS ARRIVED.

Anu Necunoscut

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2008, 06:13:43 pm »

Simple answer: baby bjorn!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Armored, if appropriate.  Dwarfmaids are hardy folk.
Logged

Neonivek

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2008, 08:37:29 pm »

Anyhow for my real answer

As good as a nursery is, I constantly hear it be refered to as a "Baby goes in and adult comes out" sort of mentality.

Dwarf babies already have shown that they need a deep bond with those taking care of it in order to survive more so then even babies in real life. (though they don't suffer from mysterious infant neglect fatality)

So in the end Id rather have the family dynamic of dwarves worked on so that Grandparents, parents, children, husbands, or even VERY close personal friends will be willing to take care of a child of someone is indesposed.

If there ever is a Nursery I hope Toady recognises that frankly it is at best a baby holding facility and thus babies who are there for extended periods of time should develop serious psychological issues such as being prone to trantrum and melencholy. Including that Dwarf Babies should randomly just die off in the Nursery as well (THIS IS REAL IT HAPPENS!!!)
Logged

penguinofhonor

  • Bay Watcher
  • Minister of Love
    • View Profile
Re: Dwarven Nursery?
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2008, 09:49:23 pm »

Including that Dwarf Babies should randomly just die off in the Nursery as well (THIS IS REAL IT HAPPENS!!!)

That sounds appropriate for DF.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3