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Author Topic: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?  (Read 2297 times)

Misterstone

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Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« on: August 01, 2008, 03:56:52 pm »

Does anyone know of some good tricks for keeping certain entities from becoming too powerful in worldgen?  I find it hard to get a good balance- it seems like on any map with lots of forests, the damn elfers go totally nuts and wipe out every other civ, blanketing the planet with their hippie retreats.  Humans seem to be among the hardest to encourage.  Turning up savagery does not seem to stop the elves, and turning up evilness seems to slow down everyone equally.

Are there any factors beyond biome that these suckers pay attention to?  Temperature maybe?
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SirPenguin

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2008, 04:02:22 pm »

I believe Humans are plainsdwelling, so have a lot of plains, few forests (Elves are still zerg rushers), and a lot of mountains should allow every race to have a fair amount of people.
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Dogman

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2008, 09:50:14 pm »

The number of max civs allocated to a certain race in the raws, for one. Dwarves default max civ number is 3, which means even on a large map you're rarely going to get more than 2. You can bump the elves max civ number really low or increase the humans civs. You can also set the number of civs in the advanced parameters.
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Misterstone

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2008, 12:22:25 am »

I have found that even when I set the number of civs low, the ones that do get spawned tend to fill up the empty spaces pretty quickly... so that doesn't always work very well.
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Zironic

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2008, 01:21:53 am »

Greatly weaken the elven empire in general - lower the power/defense of wood armor - and decrease their size. Just rawer them down lower in power - this sometimes works - also bolstering the humans help.
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Jualin

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2008, 01:43:08 am »

You could attempt to cut their military might by making it so that there are more elf civilizations, insuring that the humans don't ever go against too large an entity. Might not work either, though...
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Zemat

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2008, 02:26:12 am »

If you want to curtail elf growth mod the elf creature raw to make their childhood last longer (50 years instead of 15 for example). This way there will be a longer span between generations (elves will become grandfathers after 50 years instead of 15) and their cities will take longer to fill up.
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Zironic

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2008, 10:39:09 am »

Add ethics that undermine progress to elves likes:

[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:PUNISH_CAPITAL] and [ETHIC:TREASON:ACCEPTABLE]

Making it ok to go agianst their country - and punishable by death if they attack their enemies
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MaxVance

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2008, 03:42:35 pm »

The best way to keep elves down is to take away their biological immortality. I give them a lifespan of 300-500 years, which is still pretty reasonable.
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Teldin

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2008, 04:03:26 pm »

The easiest way to make sure they won't spill over into enemy territory is to limit their biome support in the entity_default.txt file. Each entity (civ) has a number of biomes that they can live on; if you remove certain ones so that they don't overlap, the civs will not conquer each other or (usually) go to war. Conversely, if you want a huge royal rumble that usually ends with one civ dominating over the rest, make them all have the same biomes.
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Deathworks

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2008, 04:06:00 pm »

Hi!

As people already mentioned, certain civs are related to certain terrains, so messing with these would help.

Personally, I have found humans to be much more annoying and difficult to deal with as they will actually settle in forest retreats after they killed the elves.

Anyhow, if you want to eliminate the elves entirely, just increase the number of non-mountainous caves (to say, 600). Odds are, that a giant-infested cave will be near any elven settlement, which means that settlement will be destroyed within less than 40 years. Don't worry, all other races are much more resistant to cave creatures (although they do occasionally lose settlements to them).

Another thing you could do is using the parameters to make grassland and hills near the forests so that humans meet the elves early on. This usually spells the end of the elves.

Currently, I am experimenting to find a configuration with long-living megabeasts and all major races still around at at least the year 600 without any modding. My best was about year 366 or some such with a wonderful set of neighboring human and elven civs constantly fighting each other.

In general, humans and elves very often will fight to the death once they encounter each other - so you usually find human forest retreats near any towns or the ruins of towns near any elven forest retreats. Similarly, dwarves and goblins impact each other negatively, however, I have seen less agressiveness there than with elves and humans (but then again, they tend to have fewer settlements).

If you want hints about terrain in the world gen, require a ridiculously high number of squares of the terrain you want info about. When the game offers you abort, it tells you exactly what features need to combine to create the terrain that is lacking.

Deathworks
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Draco18s

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2008, 06:34:27 pm »

Currently, I am experimenting to find a configuration with long-living megabeasts and all major races still around at at least the year 600 without any modding. My best was about year 366 or some such with a wonderful set of neighboring human and elven civs constantly fighting each other.

Params?  I tend to play Medium sized worlds, and end at year 300 anyway, so that's a good enough mark.
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Tnx

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2008, 07:07:38 pm »

Why don't you try increasing the number of max allowed pop per site, that should help. It's in the entity txt and there's one for each race.
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Deathworks

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2008, 04:17:14 am »

Hi!

I currently lost track of which one was the one amusing human-elf conflict map (I currently have 34 maps created in 39e and I only remember the detail about the human elf conflict about that map).

However, I have two other maps that may be interesting for you until I find that one.

The first one is Kar Dakon, which ran until 466 and features several dragons besides all four races active. I have uploaded it to the depot and the params are also given at the depot listing:

Depot Listing
Map at the archive

The second one is Somnir, a map with several islands and continents. Originally, I genned till 1200, but then broke off since I figured the surviving megabeasts were on the islands. However, there had been slayings until after 1000, so I generated the world again running to 650, so that there should be several megabeasts near the civilizations. The megabeast population is a colorful mix. Params are again at the depot listing.

As a nice feature, there is a small bordertown called "Luckjuggles" which seems to get periodically destroyed and rebuilt (about 15 times or so until 650). It confirms that elves and humans are bad neighbors :) :) :)

Depot Listing
Map at the map archive

I will later check for the other nice map, but I hope that these will be somewhat helpful/interesting.

Deathworks
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Draco18s

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Re: Promoting/discouraging entity growth in World Gen?
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2008, 07:56:47 am »

Thanks!  Those should be good for now, active dragons are nice (mine seem to die off too fast or aren't any to begin with, though searching through the legends is a P.I.T.A.) as well as some good old civ conflict.
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