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[Sergius]

what about greek fire?

Apparently just crude oil with some thickener/stickness added.

[G-Flex]

Incendiary weapons in general would be nice, although I'm not sure Toady sees those as a part of DF in general.

what about greek fire?

Apparently just crude oil with some thickener/stickness added.

I'm not sure I believe this, given its properties. The primary constituent was probably some petroleum/coal/tar product (although likely not raw crude oil) with other constituents to thicken it and cause it to burn better. Could have been crude, I guess, but it's very doubtful that it was anything as simple as crude oil plus sticky filler.

[Sergius]

It may have been simple, it was just not widespread or common knowledge. A lot of people back then probably didn't know about petroleum much, and it worked specially well on ships because it kept burning even on water. It didn't react to water (water wasn't needed to ignite, which is one interpretation, it just didn't put it out), it was liquid enough to launch with a pump / funnel thing, which basically was the method of use (they pretty much hosed it on the other ships decks with pumps) and burned pretty consistently. I don't think it was far more refined than that... I mean it probably wasn't gasoline. What else can you do with nafta? Like I said, they must have added some other crap to make it burn better, but I think it was the main ingredient.

In the end the other guys just started covering their ships in hides soaked in vinegar and stuff.

[sockless]

The chemical batteries weren't used for very much, as they didn't exist. I haven't seen any credible evidence whatsoever, and their existence is not "proven". The "baghdad battery" isn't even capable of producing current without modifying the design, and even then, the amount of current it could produce is extremely miniscule. Simply put, it very probably was not a battery, and we've only found one of the things anyway. Considering its design, it pretty likely was some sort of storage vessel... which would explain why it has an asphalt seal around it, which is great if you're trying to store things, but prevents you from using such a device as a battery to begin with.

That strikes down yet another argument in Chariot of the Gods?


Elves in DF aren't bigger than humans because elves can wear dwarven armour so they must be shorter. I think that a procedural adaption of weapons would be interesting, but not of technology. What I mean is that some civs would make longer bows for some reason, and some would make bone composite bows.

Concrete shouldn't be infinite, that's more a lack of feature than an actual feature. Clay and sand really should be finite, because when mixed with magma kilns it makes infinite stuff.

[G-Flex]

Elves in DF aren't bigger than humans because elves can wear dwarven armour so they must be shorter.

This conclusion relies on false premises. There currently isn't a concept of "height" in DF except for cosmetic variation. Height/width/length exist as individual variations, sure, but they all just affect size. When it comes to what armor a creature can wear, it's size that matters, all dimensions being treated equally because they do not really exist. Elves and dwarves are each the same size and smaller than humans, but it's impossible to tell their relative dimensions (are elves really tall and skinny? Dwarves really short and stocky? Dwarves eighty feet tall but an inch wide?) because there simply isn't a sense of that yet in the game.

[Pawel]

A Dwarven idea. Freeze distillation. It was used in Slavic countries about y.1000 during winters. Leave a barrel of alcohol for a night. Then you should have a mixture of liquid and almost-frozen ice. Use some cloth to squeeze the liquid out, leaving the ice. So we create a distilled alcohol at the cost of ice (that's why they send settlers to arctic areas - for alcohol), and lost volume, about 10-20%. Just to note - this process is illegal in many countries - it concentrates some toxic stuff. Like Urist McNormalDwarf would care about that...
Just add another reaction in the still. The beverages seem to have a set "value" that depends on the type, so this process should create a booze with +1/+2 value.
A container + 10x Dwarven beer + ice(to lower temperature) + cloth -> A container + 8/9x "Winter Spears" + cloth + some leftover and created ice.
And finally we'll have something to do with that useless ice (aside from all those magma-proof walls )
Plus, it's dwarven. To create booze from ice. There's nothing more dwarven than this (aside from magma-powered zombie-carp elf incinerator cannon).

[Draco18s]

See also: Ice Wine where the freezing process occurs before the fermentation process.

[UristMcHuman]

I actually think that firing mechanisms for guns should be set up and used like this: Matchlock mechanism (earliest type), Taper (for cannons, mortars (might be a bit younger) and hand-cannons, and flintlock mechanism (I know, invented in mid-1600s).

[UristMcHuman]

I also agree with sweitix (sorry if I misspelled your name) about the layout of guns, but I think it should run like this (using only range, power, fire rate and accuracy, in that order):

Bow: Medium range, low power, high fire rate, and medium accuracy.
Crossbow:Long range, medium power, medium fire rate and high accuracy.
Blowgun: Short range, low power, high fire rate and medium accuracy.
Firearm: Very long range, devastating power, low fire rate and medium-low accuracy.

Also, I've noticed that a few other pre-1400. weapons were missing. They are these:

Cannon: Extremely long range, devastating power, high fire rate (because they were fairly easy to load), and medium accuracy.
Grenade: Range depends on strength, devastating power (they explode after a few turns, blasting down anything in a 5x5 diameter), fire rate inapplicable, and accuracy depends on thrower skill.
Trebuchet: Extremely long range, very high power, very low fire rate (some took a week for the arm to crank back fully), very low accuracy.

[G-Flex]

I personally doubt that firearms of the early 1400s had "very long range".

[Draco18s]

Trebuchet: Extremely long range, very high power, very low fire rate (some took a week for the arm to crank back fully), very low accuracy.

Trebuchets actually have devastating accuracy.  It just took very complex math to work out where the project tile would land before it was fired, based on more than 4 variables¹.  Once the thing was aimed and tuned properly each shot would smack into the same place.

¹

1) Weight of the counterweight
2) Weight of the projectile
3) Curvature of the hook
4) Length of the sling

[UristMcHuman]

Huh. I never thought about (or even knew) that. And to G-Flex, maybe you're right, but I want to have dwarfs be able to shoot their enemies before their enemies can shoot them, as some will be armed with crossbows, while dwarves would be armed with a deadly new weapon. Training to use guns should also be fairly easy (as it was in the real world). For example, take a Goblin and a Dwarf. In the arena (in later versions, of course), make the goblin a Novice Crossbowgoblin, give him a steel crossbow and 10 steel bolts, and stick him on a pillar. Next, take the dwarf, make him a Novice Rifledwarf ('rifle' should apply to all guns in later versions, not just rifles), give him a steel hand-cannon and 10 steel hand-cannonballs. Stick this guy on a pillar, too. Unpause, and watch. The rifledwarf should hit the crossbowgoblin at least 6 times out of 10, while the goblin will hit the dwarf less accurately. I intended to call the dwarf a rifleman, but he's (obviously) not a human, so I called him a rifledwarf.

[Draco18s]

Huh. I never thought about (or even knew) that.

It's difficult to find ammo that's all the same size, weight, and shape.  And all four variables effect the trajectory arc, but under ideal conditions each arc will be exactly the same, and changing one variable has a very predictable result.

[G-Flex]

Huh. I never thought about (or even knew) that. And to G-Flex, maybe you're right, but I want to have dwarfs be able to shoot their enemies before their enemies can shoot them, as some will be armed with crossbows, while dwarves would be armed with a deadly new weapon. Training to use guns should also be fairly easy (as it was in the real world).

If you want them to have long range with good accuracy, then guns don't really fit the bill. Some kind of mechanical projectile launcher would probably be better. Medieval firearms could still be useful for them since, presumably, dwarves also tend to fight in close quarters a lot, but medieval firearms were generally kind of crummy to begin with and took just about forever to prepare to fire.

Novice Rifledwarf ('rifle' should apply to all guns in later versions, not just rifles)

Why call them rifles if they're not rifles?

[Vattic]

Huh. I never thought about (or even knew) that. And to G-Flex, maybe you're right, but I want to have dwarfs be able to shoot their enemies before their enemies can shoot them, as some will be armed with crossbows, while dwarves would be armed with a deadly new weapon.

No need for a new weapon. Slings out range even longbows in the hands of someone skilled. There are a handful of threads on them including one I participated in and through debate ended up posting lots of quotes from many sources. An accurate site on slings can be found here.