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[Qmarx]

Has anyone mention the Guiding Hand Social Club infamous shakedown?<P>Direct link to it. http://eve.klaki.net/heist/ <P>If someone has already posted this and I missed it just ignore me, I'm tired and posting. Not a good combo.

Sorry to bring this post back from the dead, but I finally read this, and it made me sick to my stomach.  I can understand piracy, and I agree that a sense of true loss really does make combat meaningful.  But what they did was truly evil and most definitely affected those people IRL as well.  It's as though your tier-5, fully-keyed level 70 in WoW were killed in an arena battle, and suddenly you were level 30.  Not only that, but all of your gear and all of your keys are gone, even the stuff you had in your bank.

There is a difference between roleplaying an evil character and being a truly malicious person, and I have to say that the GHSC folk fall fully in the latter category.

From what I heard, the GHSC grossly exaggerated what they had managed to do.  The comment from the person who was attacked mentioned that it wasn't much more damage than would have been inflicted by a couple of well-coordinated attacks.  The company is still going strong, and wasn't severely damaged.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

Possibly.

I think the game is not the same as WOW, and you can't make the comparison legitimately. After all, in EVE you can blackmail and cheat people, and you're quite unlikely to reach an endgame level without crushing a few skulls. So first, nobody is innocent enough to warrant a "poor me" victim status, and second everyone who plays knows what the game is like. If you die, you lose your shit. It doesn't get damaged a little and kick you back to town for a rez. Compared to EVE, WOW is like a carebear in a padded cell.

No arguments. I stand by this. Some games are simply more hardcore than others. You can't compare to another game blindly and expect your favorite to be harsher than the other one. And if you don't like it, you don't have to play.

[KrunkSplein]

Possibly.

I think the game is not the same as WOW, and you can't make the comparison legitimately. After all, in EVE you can blackmail and cheat people, and you're quite unlikely to reach an endgame level without crushing a few skulls. So first, nobody is innocent enough to warrant a "poor me" victim status, and second everyone who plays knows what the game is like. If you die, you lose your shit. It doesn't get damaged a little and kick you back to town for a rez. Compared to EVE, WOW is like a carebear in a padded cell.

No arguments. I stand by this. Some games are simply more hardcore than others. You can't compare to another game blindly and expect your favorite to be harsher than the other one. And if you don't like it, you don't have to play.

That was an unnecessarily harsh response.  I have played EVE, at one point with two active accounts.  I also firmly believe that WoW is "Baby's First MassMOG."  However, World of Warcraft is ubiquitous, and thus a perfect choice when an analogy is needed.

Dying and losing your shit to PKs/Pirates isn't new to the genre.  Sometimes you get ganked - that's the way the cookie crumbles.  You don't like it?  Stay in high-sec space.  But what I'm saying is that this goes above and beyond simple piracy.  Standard pirates don't pod you, because they'd rather you came back with fancy new gear they can steal again.  It's not in their financial interest to have you spend money on things that you don't drop when you die.  Standard pirates don't scam their way into your Corp only to steal everything that isn't bolted down.

This was simply the worst type of griefing.  I guarantee you that if this happened in, say, South Korea, the follow-up story would be the arrest of the Ubiqua Seraph CEO for the assault/murder of the guy playing Arenis Xemdal.

Fortunately, the more I read, the more I hear comments echoing what Qmarx has said - GHSC were essentially doing some drunken boasting, and Ubiqua Seraph is still going strong.

Here's my opinion in a nutshell: PKers/Pirates are part of the game, without them the game loses a lot of its appeal.  Griefers are an entirely different animal and should be thrown to the skeletal carp.  Pirates kill you to make a profit.  Griefers kill you because they get off on ruining other peoples' experiences.  If you're part of a decently-sized Corp, you have people to back you up - people to grief the griefers.  But if you're a new guy who just spent his last ISK on a nice mining frigate only to be destroyed and podded on your way back from your first haul, you're screwed.

[Old-Man-Gator]

Used to lose all your stuff in UO as well.

And we won't get into the heady days of a bunch of people on UO who were known as the House of Pain.

[Asehujiko]

Games like this are only fun for the people lucky enough to be in a clan capable of fighting off most attacks. For small groups of friends and single players it means they are tossed back to square 1 and beyond almost daily. Which is absolutely not fun. In my entire trail of UO i never made it out of the newb zone without being ganked. If i want "the thrill of the hunt" i'd play an fps that doesn't require me to do chores for days before i'm combat ready again and leave me completely vulnerable during that time but instead lets me respawn and join the action again in seconds. <3 TF2 for letting me start with a fully loaded gatling cannon every time.

[frostedfire]

Games like this are only fun for the people lucky enough to be in a clan capable of fighting off most attacks. For small groups of friends and single players it means they are tossed back to square 1 and beyond almost daily. Which is absolutely not fun. In my entire trail of UO i never made it out of the newb zone without being ganked. If i want "the thrill of the hunt" i'd play an fps that doesn't require me to do chores for days before i'm combat ready again and leave me completely vulnerable during that time but instead lets me respawn and join the action again in seconds. <3 TF2 for letting me start with a fully loaded gatling cannon every time.

at least you have concord to protect you all the way out to lowsec, sometimes wish I could have gotten that in warcrack

[Yami]

Games like this are only fun for the people lucky enough to be in a clan capable of fighting off most attacks. For small groups of friends and single players it means they are tossed back to square 1 and beyond almost daily. Which is absolutely not fun. In my entire trail of UO i never made it out of the newb zone without being ganked. If i want "the thrill of the hunt" i'd play an fps that doesn't require me to do chores for days before i'm combat ready again and leave me completely vulnerable during that time but instead lets me respawn and join the action again in seconds. <3 TF2 for letting me start with a fully loaded gatling cannon every time.

Losing is fun...

While I admit I do enjoy such games that throw you back into the action with a quick respawn, I did manage to enjoy playing EVE solo, while in lowsec space for a good three or so months.  Sadly I realized I would be have to be going rather hardcore pirate if I really wanted to advance much further and decided I'd rather not.

[Vicomt]

I came across from Eve due to the dwarf fortress thread on the SHC. I've been "playing" Eve since beta, and nothing..... nothing will ever come close the to heart-pounding OHGODOHGODOHGOD I'm going to die feeling, or the exultant jubilation as the opponents hard work goes up in smoke. That's what Eve is. That's what Eve does. It's not for everyone.

I'm "Vicarrah" in eve if you ever want to find me, just pray you're not Amarrian 

and btw, the comparisons between DF and Eve in terms of the learning curve (gotta love that pic) is about right, they're both difficult, time consuming, and frustrating to learn.

Vic

[Maggarg - Eater of chicke]

I wish I had enough money to play mermorpergers and things like that.
EVE online sounds like so much greedy profiteering fun.

[Vicomt]

I wish I had enough money to play mermorpergers and things like that.
EVE online sounds like so much greedy profiteering fun.

Actually, you don't need real cash to play, you can make ingame money (however you want) then buy game time cards (GTC's) using ingame money.
you might not be able to make enough to support yourself intially as a low-skill pilot, but once you have some better skills, its either: relatively easy but time consuming, or: quite dangerous, but quicker.

your only limits in Eve are those you set yourself.

Vic

[Alfador]

Games like this are only fun for the people lucky enough to be in a clan capable of fighting off most attacks. For small groups of friends and single players it means they are tossed back to square 1 and beyond almost daily. Which is absolutely not fun. In my entire trail of UO i never made it out of the newb zone without being ganked. If i want "the thrill of the hunt" i'd play an fps that doesn't require me to do chores for days before i'm combat ready again and leave me completely vulnerable during that time but instead lets me respawn and join the action again in seconds. <3 TF2 for letting me start with a fully loaded gatling cannon every time.

Agreed; if I want "losing is fun" I'll play something like DF or TF2. If I want something where I put a lot of effort into building up a character, I don't want any chance that the actions of another character could rob me of all that work. Hence WoW. Or a single-player RPG of the day.

[Wokeye]

..... nothing will ever come close the to heart-pounding OHGODOHGODOHGOD I'm going to die feeling, or the exultant jubilation as the opponents hard work goes up in smoke.

This is my experience too.  I regard EVE as much more like real life that the constructed PvE, even PvP of other games, where death has no real value/loss.  Plus in EVE a new player can kill a veteran - try that in WoW or other 'levelling' games!

[SmileyMan]

I've never been interested in any MMORPG (apart from the MUD's I used to play way back when) but reading that article on EVE makes me want to join in.