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Author Topic: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist  (Read 80001 times)

RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #180 on: April 16, 2009, 10:25:03 pm »

It would be cool, if there was a solution for the problem with water triggered pressure plates and the things they are linked to getting out of synch. Maybe the option to set a pressure plate to "critical", which causes the game to check all the objects that are linked to it every x th cycle and, if necessary, to update the state.

My linking-plates-to-plates idea 'might' help with that. My situation is that I have a sea of plates 20 deep, and I want it to close a door if there is a dwarf on it, and not open it until there are no dwarves anywhere on it. My current system has me worried that as a dwarf runs across it all the plates they are leaving will send open signals(I am sending the plates to a mechanism that inverts the signal and provides an always open switch) to the door. So I want all the plates to depress as soon as a dwarf steps on one and for none of them to rise until they are all clear. If this was applied to water level maintaining plates then it 'might' provide some insurance, as I 'think' that none of them would be able to send a false off signal unless they all sent a false off signal...

You could probably achieve a satisfactory effect by simply queuing up a small number of repeating signals whenever a plate was triggered, so that 25, 50, 100, 200, and 400 steps after the plate triggers it will send its state again...

Another approach would be to have a signal buffer, objects record all inputs(or only the most recent) and don't process signals if they will not act upon them...
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Techhead

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #181 on: April 17, 2009, 04:37:34 am »

Even better if you can make spike traps that impale when you fall on them.

Or the punji tiger traps that spring spikes at you.
Why spike traps? EVERYTHING is better with magma.
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Maggarg - Eater of chicke

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #182 on: April 17, 2009, 06:17:41 am »

Even better if you can make spike traps that impale when you fall on them.

Or the punji tiger traps that spring spikes at you.
Why spike traps? EVERYTHING is better with magma.
Hollow spikes that spew magma.
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BlackSash

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #183 on: April 17, 2009, 07:21:21 am »

A small thing that struck me as odd (hi, BTW, i'm new to these forums) is the fact that the screw pump in fact resets pressure.

I find this odd as the Archimedan screw is basically nothing more than a tube with a corkscrew in it. High pressure water on the intake should flow merrily through the pump to the exit, in some cases faster than the pump can actually pump it. I understand why it does this from the way the pump is implemented in this game, but I would sometimes like to be able to make use of pressure even when I use pumps.

For instance I have an entrance in my fort, that is basically nothing more than a pit about 10 z-levels down from the water level. I have dug a pit equally deep under the water, and using some clever digging techniques, I lost a mere 3 dwarves in flooding the pit. :) Now I would expect the water to run straight through the pump and up the entrance... but it doesnt.

Again, I understand _why_ but as long as we're tossing out ideas: how about multiple types of pumps?

The normal screw pump as is would be useful for fast water transport for things like, say flooding your fortress due to a minor mistake in walling the pumps in, but could not build pressure (due to the being a tube and all) or block natural water flows, and a gear pump would pump water slower, but be able to build up pressure on the exit side as well, so it would be able to pump water *up* a few z-levels. (not too many, maybe 2 max). Not sure whether this should pump magma up as well, perhaps not.

Additionally, a gear pump would (obviously) need gears made specifically for these types of pumps, giving the mechanic something other to build than the generic 'mechanism' which can be practically anythin at this point. Seen from where mechanisms are used at the moment a mechanism is a lock, deadbolt, gear, bevelled gear, clutch, axle, strut, piston (although not hydraulic, so more of an actuator), ratchet, switch and crank.

Probably these don't all have to be separated out into individual components, but this is a bit too... generic... for my tastes at least.

As far as the suggestions in the FP, i'll sum up my opinion for you to enjoy:

Steam: YAY
Electricity: NAHH
Scopes and massive weapons: NAHH
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 07:23:14 am by BlackSash »
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Random832

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #184 on: April 17, 2009, 09:12:31 am »

Another idea - separate the "pressure reset" function into another device. Specifically, there is a device in the real world that does exactly this (in so far as it prevents incoming water from reaching above its level): The float valve.
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sonerohi

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #185 on: April 17, 2009, 09:48:53 pm »

It'd be neat to have a dwarf-power way to power a large system, instead of a capstan. I don't like animals breeding and as such eradicate all of them, but that doesn't mean a dwarf couldn't turn a large wheel to power the whole system. Maybe he or she could slowly accumulate power until there is enough for all machines, and then they all turn on for a tick? I'd find it useful as a way to regulate waterflow such that instead of flooding a kajillion squares momentarily due to constant power supply, I could make it so that my pump only turns on once every five frames and as such puts out only ankle deep water across the whole area. It'd be neat to find the rate and space needed so that the water dries out as fast as it's pumped out, to make a neat eternal-irrigation machine.
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RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #186 on: April 18, 2009, 03:22:00 am »

I think I suggested dwarf-power a while ago, not sure if it is on the list though, but I am pretty sure that mechanical batteries are on there. Although a power-specific on/off switch could be good, as opposed to the current system of turning gears on and off which isn't really practical for fine measurements...

You should be able to stop a pump from killing pressure by adding a bypass, it uses up more space, but should work.

I am not quickly coming up with a practical thing that could be called a screw pump that would kill pressure, but for the moment I think that it is much easier to code the way it is, but I approve of it as a suggestion, the more that you separate different devices the more you can play around with their workings...
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MrWiggles

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #187 on: April 21, 2009, 02:31:45 am »

I think I suggested dwarf-power a while ago, not sure if it is on the list though, but I am pretty sure that mechanical batteries are on there. Although a power-specific on/off switch could be good, as opposed to the current system of turning gears on and off which isn't really practical for fine measurements...
I however quite like that to have on and off switches requires engaging and disengaging, it seem more in tune with DF tech level. IIRC this is how water wheels would be turned off. THey would disengage the gears from the waterwheel axle.

Load Stones. Sorta more fantasish then other aspects but more application of magnetism. The first through that spring to mine is paving paths on the ground with load stone, then constructing load stone bins to make it easier to move items, I personally like the idea of a floating castle. There also the possibility of making magentic spin chambers for waterless or windless maps.
Code: [Select]
   WW | WW
  W   M   W
 W         W
W           W
~M M~~X~~M M~
W          W   
 W        W
  W   M  W
    WW|WW

W=Wall
| ~ = axles
M=Magnets
The wall magnets retracting as the central fly wheel magnet approaches and extending when its leaving.

This mock up could only exist as long as thermodynamics aren't implemented. (This mock up led me to learn about Those pesky laws from my 8th grade sci. projects)

Edit: And something to add in would be the magnetic wearing out. Possible each time, its checked to see if its magnetic properties are needed.

Oo, and a Magnet Trap that affect all farris materials. So those brass titans would be fine.


« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 06:24:24 am by MrWiggles »
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #188 on: April 21, 2009, 03:51:57 am »

I want two interesting mechanics concepts, apart from custom powered workshops.

Mechanic switches and custom traps.

Mechanic switches are just gearboxes that happen to have linking in reverse - i.e. you link THEM to something. They would have the same parameters as a pressure plate - off below a certain power threshold, on above it, off again above another threshold. With alternative reverse that is very much needed for all switches.

Custom traps are a mighty beast. They would replace all the different traps with just one. The trap itself is a mechanical structure, built like a wall or floor (that probably makes two), with the same materials. Upon placement, the trap is positioned to work in a direction. It will orient its active tile in the chosen direction, making it easier to see the direction when constructing. Both the floor and the wall can be oriented "center" - for the floor, it will mean the active tile is directly on the floor tile(for weapon traps), for the wall it will mean it's on the tile directly below(for stonefall traps). The trap can also be connected to a lever or pressure plate. It has a lot of options from there.

Add switch: the trap will spring if its active tile is stepped on. +1 mechanism, same settings as a pressure plate sans water/magma.
Add component: use a mechanism to create a component for the trap. Only one component can be attached to a floor tile, and two can be set into a wall tile. Components are:
- Swing rack: Allows mounting up to five slashing or bashing implements onto the trap. These will smash into the active tile when the trap is triggered.
- Thrust rack: Allows mounting stabbing devices onto the trap, up to five.
- Trigger rack: Allows installing up to five bows or crossbows into the rack, and a stack of ammo for each. These will shoot out in the direction of the active tile (including upwards or downwards) when the trap is triggered.
- Throw mechanism: Allows loading any object into the trap, to be thrown with brutal force in the direction of the active tile when the trap is triggered. Use something heavy in floor tiles to punt enemies upwards, use in wall tiles to throw serrated discs at enemies or drop statues or anvils onto them.
- Link mechanism: Links the trap to an existing device. The only way to make a hatch open when it's stepped on. Or to sync anvils falling from above with spears stabbing from below, for instance.

This allows for a broad range of functions while keeping the interface relatively uncluttered.

sweitx

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #189 on: April 21, 2009, 09:50:53 pm »

It would be cool, if there was a solution for the problem with water triggered pressure plates and the things they are linked to getting out of synch. Maybe the option to set a pressure plate to "critical", which causes the game to check all the objects that are linked to it every x th cycle and, if necessary, to update the state.

My linking-plates-to-plates idea 'might' help with that. My situation is that I have a sea of plates 20 deep, and I want it to close a door if there is a dwarf on it, and not open it until there are no dwarves anywhere on it. My current system has me worried that as a dwarf runs across it all the plates they are leaving will send open signals(I am sending the plates to a mechanism that inverts the signal and provides an always open switch) to the door. So I want all the plates to depress as soon as a dwarf steps on one and for none of them to rise until they are all clear. If this was applied to water level maintaining plates then it 'might' provide some insurance, as I 'think' that none of them would be able to send a false off signal unless they all sent a false off signal...

You could probably achieve a satisfactory effect by simply queuing up a small number of repeating signals whenever a plate was triggered, so that 25, 50, 100, 200, and 400 steps after the plate triggers it will send its state again...

Another approach would be to have a signal buffer, objects record all inputs(or only the most recent) and don't process signals if they will not act upon them...
Hm, quick question, say a floodgate is closing (not yet), but an open command is given, does the floodgate simply stop closing (stays open).
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Techhead

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #190 on: April 21, 2009, 10:05:06 pm »

Yes, it currently does, the newest command issued takes priority.
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Random832

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #191 on: April 22, 2009, 09:03:41 am »

Yes, it currently does, the newest command issued takes priority.

Are you sure? I thought the core of the pressure plate/floodgate problem was that commands issued while it's in the delay for an earlier command are ignored
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RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #192 on: April 22, 2009, 09:51:39 am »

Yeah, I wasn't sure what they were saying the first time I read it, but my understanding is that signals have no affect on something that still responding to an earlier signal. If a floodgate has been open for some time, and receives a close signal, then is will close after some time has elapsed. Until it closes, it will be as though it were not linked to anything, open signals will not stop it from closing, close signals will not make it close any faster, all signals are discarded until it has closed. The same is true of the time between it receiving an open signal and the time it opens due to that signal.



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jaked122

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #193 on: April 22, 2009, 04:56:36 pm »

YES magnifying glass... I've wanted to burn ants in dwarf fortress for too long.

RAM

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Re: Additional Mechanics/Traps Wishlist
« Reply #194 on: April 23, 2009, 08:04:39 pm »

You need magma for that, and I think they prefer to be called dwarves...
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