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[dreiche2]

Several times recently, I participated in threads where I felt I had to defend the right of the OP to make a well-meant suggestion (3rd party interfaces for instances) without being attacked over the board by supposed Toady-defenders...

but wow, this is actually a flame-worthy post after all... I mean there might be some valid issues behind his post like that there was no big addition in fortress mode recently (for a reason, of course), or that one could be concerned about the dev process as a whole...

but the way he makes his statement, he's just being a troll indeed.

I just realized you named yourself Gimli. Just a quick name to post negatives?

He's got 130 posts, so no.

Yes, I actually recognized the forum name before reading the post, and vaguely remembered getting into bad-tempered arguments with him before...

[Mohreb el Yasim]

but wow, this is actually a flame-worthy post after all... I mean there might be some valid issues behind his post like that there was no big addition in fortress mode recently (for a reason, of course), or that one could be concerned about the dev process as a whole...

how there were nothing added int fortress mode? now you just don't embark on a steril world where there are "good" and "bad" guys and all place is the same ... now you can have goblin 'budies' elf's how wan't to eat you (but still don't hurt trees) and your engravings tell the lore of the where around. isn't it more intressting addon then a "now we can make 5 handed swords died in red and tomorow we will even add the possibility of smith 4 handed axes useable only by dawarfes wich can even be dyed in blue" ... ok i agree the gameplay hasen't changed but it was become more deep and even more costumisable (like the workgen, more possibilities to mod) i think it is better spend dev.-time in real changes not silly add ons wich will just slow down the later developement (like interface will do or a tons of specific workshops/items.) I don't think a new workshop would be a problem to Toady to add put after if he want to change some comportement for all workshops (better list for example) it will add to the charge of that. Interface is the same problem. add a new possibilite in a simple liste is better then find the place for that new button ...

[dreiche2]

the Core items are much more exciting and personally rewarding to work on, and the bugs/problems come with much more immediacy attached to them.  It's somewhat tragic that there hasn't been a single new basic item or building type added this year, stuck mostly on world gen as I was

I wast just stating that the focus has been groundwork recently, not so much direct changes to fortress mode. But of course, the reason is that big changes need that kind of groundwork first...

[Exponent]

That was a lot of negativity.  But I can agree with a lot of the content of what you said.  I too was rather disappointed with what Toady decided to work on, since a lot of it is just behind the scenes "atmospheric" "ambience" sort of stuff.

I disagree strongly with this. The whole procedurally generated civilizations thing is really fascinating (and a major reason why DF is so fun), and I am actually pretty excited to see development with the religions and spheres and hist fig stuff... even if only 10% of that is actually visible in-game.

Some of us play DF like an RPG, and lots of the "atmospheric" and "ambience" stuff is what draws us to DF... c'mon, can you honestly say you don't like the cannibal elves?

I actually have no problem with this statement.  I realize a lot of people really like this new stuff.  (And as I described in my previous post, Toady is the most important person in this group of those who enjoy the recently added stuff, since his enjoyment is necessary for continued development.)  It's just that I'm not really in this group.  Doesn't prevent me from respecting those that are.  I suppose I was just trying to relate to the OP somewhat, while simultaneously showing my disapproval of his attitude.  Show him that one can express disagreements and disappointments without being quite so negative and unproductive.

[Angry Lawyer]

Hey! I play this regularly. There are a lot of things I would enjoy changed about it but I suppose that's what current development is for.

Also, FUCK redqueen in the ass, I don't understand in the slightest why that map is so popular. It's boring and lame and I hate it and every goddam server has it.

I can really relate to Toady when he says he doesn't want to lose control of the project - it happened to us with ZM when people started putting the same admin plugin that installed crap features like regeneration and levelling and ruined the flow of the game and made it into a generic shooter on every damn server.

-Angry Lawyer

[TheSpaceMan]

Hey! I play this regularly. There are a lot of things I would enjoy changed about it but I suppose that's what current development is for.

Also, FUCK redqueen in the ass, I don't understand in the slightest why that map is so popular. It's boring and lame and I hate it and every goddam server has it.

I can really relate to Toady when he says he doesn't want to lose control of the project - it happened to us with ZM when people started putting the same admin plugin that installed crap features like regeneration and levelling and ruined the flow of the game and made it into a generic shooter on every damn server.

-Angry Lawyer

I feel your pain. ZM is DAMN good. So good I have considered contacting you to try to help out in any mean i can. But as allways it comes down to time and priorities.

[Tormy]

but the way he makes his statement, he's just being a troll indeed.

Nop he is not a troll, like Ive said, he is my brother. Perhaps the way as he posted is a bit offensive, but I know that he did not wanted to troll here.
Actually I can understand his point also from a perspective, however this game is free, so it was pointless to make a post like this. If the game would have a monthly fee for example, his post would be totally valid and acceptable.
I think that he was just surprised that he wasnt able to find any new interesting content in the game, thats all. 

[thvaz]

He is a jerk. Stop trying to justify him. It's not what he wrote, but how he wrote it.

[Tormy]

He is a jerk. Stop trying to justify him. It's not what he wrote, but how he wrote it.

Im not trying to do anything, I was just answering to the man who thought that gimli is a troll.
I dont like the style of the post at all [OP], but it could be worse actually, its just a bit flamey imho, so I dont think that you should call anyone a jerk, just because he/she posted some of his/her concerns about the game in a way what you dont like.

[Deon]

Don't use 'jerk' and other words against a man unknown for you, please.
This is what I call trolling and flaming.

Well, yes, the man was disappointed because he's more Action player as I see and he was not interested in new HUGE possibilities because he likes another side of DF (which is multi-dimensional multi-sided game). I think his only fault was to post about it . Because I don't see the matter of this post.

Tormy, since he's his brother I'd smash thvaz in his head for such words about your brother . But your brother was not right in aspect of this thread being pointless. Well, really, he could PM Toady asking why is he so slow and get some answers (maybe and if he were polite). But making it a public discussion is rather... strange.

[Shakkara]

I'm one of the developers for www.zombiemaster.org - I stopped responding to ideas threads because every time I said an idea would ruin the main concept (i.e. scrap the concept of being RTS vs. FPS and turn it into a team FPS) the whole team would get abuse.

-Angry Lawyer

Don't you ban them?

I used to run an ultima online server years ago and if people were unreasonable towards staff or even other players, they'd get a 24-hour ban faster than they could blink. If they kept up the attitude problem, they could get IP banned. Needless to say I only had ONE American player that could behave himself, rest were mostly British and German.

Now I don't want to be a Derek Smart that only wants people that kiss his feet, but 90% of the people on the internet are trash who should be playing Halo 3, and leave the intelligent people to the niche games made for them.

[Tormy]

Tormy, since he's his brother I'd smash thvaz in his head for such words about your brother . But your brother was not right in aspect of this thread being pointless. Well, really, he could PM Toady asking why is he so slow and get some answers (maybe and if he were polite). But making it a public discussion is rather... strange.

Uh, if you would know my brother....
Yes its weird that he has made a public post like this...this shouldve been a PM directed to Toady, I agree with you. [Even tho, even I was surprised that some posters agreed with my brother here in this public post]

[Fieari]

In my country we have a saying that badly translated means "If you give people a hand, they will want your arm". I'm sure there are equivalents in other places, because it's so true.

There are two English colloquial equivalents to this.  The more general phrase is rendered "Given them an inch, they'll take a yard."  The more specific is "If you give a mouse a cookie..." referring to a popular children's picture book by that name.  "If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk.  If you give a mouse a glass of milk, he's going to want a straw.  When he's finished, he'll want a napkin.  Then he'll want a mirror, then he'll want to cut his hair so he'll want some scissors... etc etc etc etc etc"

[Draco18s]

The more specific is "If you give a mouse a cookie..." referring to a popular children's picture book by that name.  "If you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to want a glass of milk.  If you give a mouse a glass of milk, he's going to want a straw.  When he's finished, he'll want a napkin.  Then he'll want a mirror, then he'll want to cut his hair so he'll want some scissors... etc etc etc etc etc"

I think you end up taking him to a movie (with popcorn and soda and a box of candy too).

[thvaz]

Tormy, since he's his brother I'd smash thvaz in his head for such words about your brother . But your brother was not right in aspect of this thread being pointless. Well, really, he could PM Toady asking why is he so slow and get some answers (maybe and if he were polite). But making it a public discussion is rather... strange.

Well, I got angry by his post and call him a jerk, you got angry at my post and want to smash my head? This is what I call escalating violence.

And though many agreed with him about the apparent stagnation of developement, no one said he has reasons to be so unpolite against Toady and his work.

And if he acts in life in the same way he complained in his post, gimli is indeed a jerk.