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[Mephansteras]

Hey, Tormy. If your brother wants to see how much has changed, have him install one of the mods that adds in lots of new races. Mine works, and there are a number of other good ones out there.

The game gets quite a bit different when you've got 3 different races trading with you while goblins lead by Frost Giants assault your gates, only to be thrown off when another race decides to attack you at the same time, resulting in a 3-way brawl as your forces and the merchants fight off two separate groups, who are also killing each other! And throw in a few baby snatchers and thieves of various races while you're at it.

THEN, if he feels like nothing has really changed due to the world gen work, he can talk.

[Tormy]

Uh, I really dont know, I think that his problem is the lack of new gameplay content. He said something like that at least.

[Joseph Miles]

.28? You are WAY behind, it's 40c now. If anything development is going too fast for my taste. Though thats because it's mostly just little fixes and addons instead of anything major.

[Exponent]

He's referring to the second number in the version number quad.  0.28.181.40c is where we are currently at.  I think I remember seeing Toady at least once lament the lack of people using the full version number in the forums (most notably the bug report forum).  I'm just as guilty as many others regarding this, but I can see how confusion can crop up when everyone just calls it 38c or 39f or 40c or whatever.

[Joseph Miles]

Oh...well, it *IS* easier to remember.

[Mr.Person]

Go be a troll someplace else.

Remember kids, any opinion other than the general consensus is trolling

I see nothing wrong with Gimili's post, other than terrible spelling and grammer. Well, I guess he IS being insulting to certain features of DF (slow development, shitty interface) but they're true. Reread his post and break it down to what exactly is trolling, maybe I've just spent too much time on the internet 

In fact, yes, I have spent too much time on the internet.

[Deon]

Tormy, since he's his brother I'd smash thvaz in his head for such words about your brother . But your brother was not right in aspect of this thread being pointless. Well, really, he could PM Toady asking why is he so slow and get some answers (maybe and if he were polite). But making it a public discussion is rather... strange.

Well, I got angry by his post and call him a jerk, you got angry at my post and want to smash my head? This is what I call escalating violence.

And though many agreed with him about the apparent stagnation of developement, no one said he has reasons to be so unpolite against Toady and his work.

And if he acts in life in the same way he complained in his post, gimli is indeed a jerk.

I don't want to touch your head with a finger, I'm quet and in a good mood. I just was a bit Amuzed by Tormy's patience. Well, he knows his brother better .
I just don't like this word in general and ask not to start a flamewa...
Wait, flamewar? This would be cool!

WHAT THE HELL STOP PRAISING WRONG GODS, TOADY IS THE ONE!

[Tormy]

Tormy, since he's his brother I'd smash thvaz in his head for such words about your brother . But your brother was not right in aspect of this thread being pointless. Well, really, he could PM Toady asking why is he so slow and get some answers (maybe and if he were polite). But making it a public discussion is rather... strange.

Well, I got angry by his post and call him a jerk, you got angry at my post and want to smash my head? This is what I call escalating violence.

And though many agreed with him about the apparent stagnation of developement, no one said he has reasons to be so unpolite against Toady and his work.

And if he acts in life in the same way he complained in his post, gimli is indeed a jerk.

I don't want to touch your head with a finger, I'm quet and in a good mood. I just was a bit Amuzed by Tormy's patience. Well, he knows his brother better .

Ahah, its ok, if one thing is pointless in life, that is arguing/flaming on the internet. 
[Plus my brother tends to be quite offensive even in real life, this opening post what he has made is actually very calm from him ]

[TheDeadlyShoe]

dammit angry lawyer i was going to make a zombie master joke when I saw your name but now I'd just look like a tool.

[Davion]

Go be a troll someplace else.

Remember kids, any opinion other than the general consensus is trolling

I see nothing wrong with Gimili's post, other than terrible spelling and grammer. Well, I guess he IS being insulting to certain features of DF (slow development, shitty interface) but they're true. Reread his post and break it down to what exactly is trolling, maybe I've just spent too much time on the internet 

I don't know, for "spending too much time on the internet" it's hard to fathom that you didn't pick up on the antagonism when he compared this game to a joke like Duke Nukem Forever.

I'd personally love for the Army Arc to fall into my lap tomorrow, but making a thread asking a rhetorical question like "Why hasn't the Army Arc fallen into my lap today?" and complaining about it isn't going to make the development process go faster, won't be constructive, and is probably just going to piss a lot of people off.

I won't say "If you can't say anything nice...",  because criticism is always good, but if you can't criticize in a manner that isn't mildly insulting or condescending to someone then you should probably just keep your mouth shut.

[Fieari]

Disagreeing is fine.

Disagreeing while being an asshole is not fine.

Also, agreeing while being an asshole is not fine, but slightly less likely to get you called out on it.

Disagreeing for reasons with a foundation is fine.

Disagreeing for reasons that are unfounded is not fine.

In fact, disagreeing without reason is basically disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable.

The latter is called "Being a troll".

In other words, back up your words, or back off.

[Joseph Miles]

"In fact, disagreeing without reason is basically disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable.

The latter is called "Being a troll"."

It's also called playing the Devil's advocate

[Mephansteras]

"In fact, disagreeing without reason is basically disagreeing for the sake of being disagreeable.

The latter is called "Being a troll"."

It's also called playing the Devil's advocate

Which, unless you state that's what you're doing, also tends to annoy people.

Disagreeing because you're trying to bring up points that may not have been thought of, and letting people know that's what you're doing, is fine. But, then, it's also disagreeing with a reason, even if it's not founded in anything specific.

[neue]

I thought the development was incredibly fast, I've just got into DF properly (Finally got a fortress running well and have nearly hit the 100 dwarf mark) but the last time I tried to play it the game was 2D and without tilesets if I remember rightly.

Now I'm playing in 3 dimensions, with a tileset and on a Mac. Amazing work, really reminds me of the early 90s when one or two developers could pull off a huge game like Elite or Mercenary 3

[Mr.Person]

Go be a troll someplace else.

Remember kids, any opinion other than the general consensus is trolling

I see nothing wrong with Gimili's post, other than terrible spelling and grammer. Well, I guess he IS being insulting to certain features of DF (slow development, shitty interface) but they're true. Reread his post and break it down to what exactly is trolling, maybe I've just spent too much time on the internet 

I don't know, for "spending too much time on the internet" it's hard to fathom that you didn't pick up on the antagonism when he compared this game to a joke like Duke Nukem Forever.

I'd personally love for the Army Arc to fall into my lap tomorrow, but making a thread asking a rhetorical question like "Why hasn't the Army Arc fallen into my lap today?" and complaining about it isn't going to make the development process go faster, won't be constructive, and is probably just going to piss a lot of people off.

I bet you 1 million dollars that DNF comes out before version 1 of DF, all 100 cores. Face it, it's probably true. Toady has some epic plans.

#1 tip when you see a troll: ignore them. Don't post in the thread, don't rage, just ignore the troll. I was dissapointed by how many people got angry by and responded to Gimli's post. A lot of people need to take DF less srsly.

Here's how you can twist his post into something good: Toady doesn't do feature creep to the extreme like some other devs (*cough* Nethack Devteam *cough* *cough*)Oh, btw, he's actually surprisingly right. Go play the first released version of DF/1st 3D version, they all play pretty similarly.

That being said, what a worthless fucking post. He made one actual complaint, and, as other's have said, it's invalid. Besides the Army arc, Caravan arc, and proper wound handling, there's nothing non-feature creep non-interface non-bugfix Toady can do right now. Ok, there's probably SOMETHING (Magic? Life Cycles, I guess), but the only biggies he can do are those.