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[Vattic]

I don't agree with this idea but wood being so useful and relatively rare it can be a problem. It would be nice if one tree went further than it does currently, tree farming would be nice, more logs from one tree also would be nice, burning furniture should be possible too really, it has been mentioned before about having control over sites outside of your fortress, being able to set up a lumberjacks shack which delivers regular logs in return for supplies and some coins say would be nice.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, those are all real problems. I just like to think of realistic solutions, and I do think they exist.

Tower-caps being able to grow underground WITHOUT special water sources would be nice, as would tree farming in general, although you have to consider also the fact that, in real life, trees don't mature in 2-3 years, so you don't want to make it TOO easy.

And like I said, charcoal has other sources itself. For instance, you can make a sort of charcoal (although not in large pieces) from bones, and apparently even sugar.

Honestly, I never had much of a problem with wood. Every trading race brings some, and you can chop some down at your current site as well. The only time I've had a problem is when I need to rely on it for furnace operation, which becomes problematic, but I guess that's why dwarves live so close to magma.

[alpha]

trees don't mature in 2-3 years

Tower-caps are mushrooms 

[SirHoneyBadger]

I think it should be possible to harvest wood--not useable logs, just wood--from trees, without cutting them down. Perhaps a single unit, once a year, per mature tree.

Such wood could then be used for charcoal, sawdust, paper, etc.

If that were implemented, tree maturity time might be extended considerably, since the logs themselves would be more similar to stone (although perhaps also rendering a larger volume of charcoal, if burned.).

If fallen leaves were additionally harvestable, they might eventually be used as a fertilizer, helping to extend our charcoal supply.

Also, as far as fertilizers go, I'm hoping someday our dwarfs will be able to make Terra Preta:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_preta

It might end up being more expensive and labour-intensive than other fertilizers, but it lasts and lasts and lasts. Really amazing stuff. I'm trying to implement it into my garden, on a small scale.

Since charcoal can also be used to filter water, it might be used in a process to render murky pools into clean, drenable water.

Also, it's slightly off-topic, but relevant to the conversation:

I'd like to see coal tar as a byproduct of rendering coal into coke. It's got a ton of applications, from aniline dyes and drugs (tylenol):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniline#Uses

to soaps/shampoos, and tarmac roads. It was even used in Egyptian mummification:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_tar#Applications

I'm especially interested in the dyes, though.

[G-Flex]

Yeah, dwarves should have TONS of dyes at their disposal.

Off-topic, but I love the sort of green glass you can make with pitchblende (believe it or not, this is tech level appropriate since you only need a small amount of Uranium Dioxide to produce the color): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_glass

[SirHoneyBadger]

Actually, I was thinking of humans.

Dwarfs probably wouldn't care, since they spend so much time in the dark. They've got gems for color, anyway.

Same thing with elves: they've got flowers to fondle.

Dyes were extremely valuable in medieval society, though, and dwarfs might trade coal tar to humans, while elves might trade vegetable dyes.

If you were of the peasant class (and you were), you'd be lucky to own even a single piece of dyed cloth, but the rich and the aristocracy were crazy for it, so dyed cloth be an area of trade that might be cornered by humans, who so far don't seem to have much going for them in the game.

That glass is really cool, by the way. From what I read, it looks like it comes in a couple of different colors, too, which is always nice.

[Mel_Vixen]

Well it depends. In my hometown which was Weaver- and dyer-city blue was pretty common and rather cheap because, thanks to the "via regia" and the "Sechsstädtebund" which was one of the mightiest tradefedearations on middle-european continent after the "Hanse", we traded big amounts of cloth and Waid (German Indigo) eastward.

Other plant-dyes like yellow or light green were pretty common too. Most times you got more or less dyed wool. The real expensiv stuff was silk, good linen and the special dyes used for them.

Well as said my hometown was pretty much an weaver- dyer- and tradertown so i guess the standarts here, in terms of clothing, were a good part higher then in most parts of the country.

[G-Flex]

Actually, I was thinking of humans.

Dwarfs probably wouldn't care, since they spend so much time in the dark. They've got gems for color, anyway.

Dwarves are master craftsmen and artists, though.

Also, they're surrounded by all KINDS of things that can be used for coloration. The amount of coloration you can do just with minerals is amazing. Hell, by any rational standard, dwarves should have like a dozen colors of glass to choose from.

[SirHoneyBadger]

Well, it's an option open to any species. Humans just seem like they'd be more invested in dyes than other species might incline.

[G-Flex]

Perhaps, but my point is that dwarves are surrounded by so many potential mineral dyes that coloration of things like glass especially should just be a matter of course for them. e.g. "what color do you want your windows today?"

[SirHoneyBadger]

It's a good point, I'll admit.

 

[SolarShado]

I'll second the bit about dwarves and dyes.

As for the wood issue: I like the idea to harvest wood (but not logs) from grown trees. Also, after tree maturation times are increased, the ability to cut a sappling to get a little wood or wait for a bigger tree and get more wood, perhaps 2 or 3 levels of tree size.

Also: refuse -> compost. I wanna use goblin chunks to grow my Quarry Bushes!

[SirHoneyBadger]

Meat doesn't make good composting material.

It attracts vermin, and the wrong kinds of bacteria.

Bones would be great, though, and maybe blood, if it's been dried. You can also bury a fish underground, and then plant corn on top of it. That's what the Native Americans did, back when fish were a lot more easy to get than corn.

[G-Flex]

You can also probably compost a bunch of other random organic waste, like hair and the inedible portions of plants. And grass, and so forth.

Also, for some purposes, you should be able to actually collect shrubs themselves instead of just harvesting the fruit (which somehow destroys them). I'm not sure what good they'd be, for the most part (lye ash wouldn't be able to be collected from most of them, if you want to get realistic), but it would at least be nice to see a differentiation between "get strawberries from this bush" and "uproot this entire bush, taking the strawberries and turning the rest into a fine brown mist". It should be possible, for instance, to plant shrubs which survive over the years and harvest from them every once in a while. Underground versions of this concept should exist, too.

[Craftling]

Im going to piss everyone off and suggest that the elves have the dye market under their thumb, they have nothing better to sell.