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Author Topic: LCS 3.06  (Read 2214 times)

Toady One

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LCS 3.06
« on: May 09, 2004, 05:17:00 pm »

This release is really just to address a crash bug that could have exhibited itself in various ways.  For people who are actively playing I recommend this.  There's also an init file where you can choose between page up/down buttons (at least between two choices) for people that have been having trouble.  I also made it print business front names more often and made extremist presidents predictable with regard to the veto.  Now I'm going to make various cave beasts crawl up and kill some dwarves.
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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2004, 09:18:00 pm »

Thanks, I'm trying it right away   :D
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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2004, 07:56:00 am »

Hello Tarn.  I have played LCS all night, and I played practically all my february month without saving, and without crashing.  But I did save just before the month turned, just in case.  And the game (3.06) did crash once while trying to escape a car chase.  I'll try to recreate, and if I can isolate it again into a save file, I'll send it to you.

Anyway, I find it much more stable, and things work better, although there is still some minor issues with going between locations. More on that later, it is my turn to go to sleep.  At least, I know for 100% there is not going to be a chihuahua there to welcome me when I wake up  :mad: (ever played "kicking the puppy"?)

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Toady One

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2004, 03:49:00 pm »

If someone had asked me if I was going to wake up with a chihuahua in the house a few days ago, I would have said the same thing.  Think through all the scenarios.

So...  the major outstanding bugs seem to be the dead hanging around when they shouldn't be and something about car chases?

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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2004, 02:21:00 pm »

*Yawn!*

Ouch!  Went around the clock after playing too much with 3.06, so I had a lot of sleep to recover.  Most of the crashing bugs seems to be out, the game is much more stable, but I did run a second time into a crash right after a car chase, the chase itself ended with my car flipping over a parked car or something like this, and the game crashed as I was supposed to reflect on my ineptitude.  So I'd say yes, there is still something that need to be hunted down around car chases, but overall the game is much more better, I actually won   :) Unfortunately, I haven't been able to capture the bug into a savegame, in fact that second crash actually saved my leader who had been killed in the incident just prior the car chase.

Assignment of cars seems to really be fixed, but it would be nice if there was an option for clearing all cars of current passengers assignment.  The reason for this is because let's say you make a squad, assign the same car to all members, then one or more members gets injured and gets sent to the clinic, and then you assign replacement people to the squad while they are healing, assigning them the same car as the rest of the squad.  The problem is that over time, some others will get injured/replaced, and with some cars models being the same, sometimes it may look like that all squad members may be using the same car, but looking at car colors they are all yellow, which means that some members of the squad is using a car from a previous squad assignment, but it gets hard to tell which is which.  So, just a little "Clear all cars assignment" would allow us to just rebuild car assignments.

Another nice thing for the interface would be to be able to switch between squads using [] (or pageup/pagedown) just like the main screen, but when we are in the equipment or vehicules screens.  That would prevent gamers to toggle between each screens just to make assignment to his troops.

I also agree that the game end should be improved.  In three playing months, I achieved a state where I am in position to win the game, but I barely had any trouble from the police, which I had put myself in a position to fight them off.  I don't know if it is because I was pretty good at deceiving them, but I only saw one law change in my game, and if I disband now it jump straight to the end where the congress is 98% liberals (I had like 5 mod, 1 cons, 0 cons+), but with nothing on what happened in the 15 years between the events.  It is hard to believe that 3 months of activity would settle the course for the following 15 years.

Speaking of deceiving the police, I even raided them twice, just to shoot some cops, so that they get back to me, but they keep raiding the shelter (nobody there), and I haven't relocated since I left the shelter.  I AM WAITING FOR THEM!  ;)

This is one of the aspects of the game that I love most, the fact that you do very conservatives things in order to follow a liberal agenda.

Maybe the thing that could solve the timeframe problem is that "days" could be "weeks", and then the rest of the major events would happen more often in real-time, but occur at the same frequency in game-time (I think for example that the first law voting occurs after 2 months, it would just stay the same, but the player would see it only after 8 turns instead of 59).  That way, the player could see the way things go related to his efforts, and it would delay the game much more in time.  Like I said, I have set the course of events for the next 15 years in just 3 months (and probably could have done it quicker), with weeks replacing days, it would have actually took me a number of years to achieve the same result, which makes more sense.  Just my 2 cents, I wonder what somebody else has to say to this siggestion.

And I know that simulating reality is not within the scope of this game, far from it, but I thought this week-end that LCS actually does a better job at it than The Sims, which was pretty pointless IMHO.  Sims was simulating the basic individual actions everyone undertake everyday to stay alive, and quickly turned into a waste of time telling your sims to go to bed, go make food, go to the toilet, etc, but societal interactions were pretty low.  LCS, on the other hand, comes close (even if not it's original intention) to be a society simulator, although not necessarilly a very accurate one, but definetely an entertaining one.  The game gives the payer a good range of people representing all layers of society, and it's up to the player to pull the strings of this society to achieve the ultimate liberal agenda.  I think this is where the game holds the most potential.  For instance, everybody have mentionned the use of garment makers to make clothes (somebody mentionned that instead, he used a fashion designer), agents for physical security (cops, security guards and gang members could also be good choices, but are generally less armed, which is OK), programmers for hacking, etc...  But does anybody thought of making a squad of prostitutes just for the sake of seducing?  Goes faster than doing it alone, and in fact your leader will be free to do more important stuff.  That's the kind of playing room that I like with this game, there is no single course of action that have to be made to win the game, there is room for a lot of combinations.  I think there are some profressions currently not that much useful within the game right now (like janitors, engineers, mathematicians, unless I am wrong), but they could all develop some sort of advantadge to the Liberty Squad if used properly.  Some have already mentionned also.  LCS 4.0 promises to be really great.

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Toady One

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2004, 04:13:00 pm »

Re: days vs. weeks, there were some suggestions on the table that would slow the recruitment process down, so it might be unnecessary...  how did you win?  Did you have a large number of people doing operations, or did you use sleepers?  Sleepers are going to be toned down in the future, so you won't be able to win by getting enough of them and quitting when the country still has conservative attitudes and laws.  On the other hand, getting a giant force together and doing many raids each day should probably get martial law and the army involved...  that approach shouldn't work either.

Agree re: car assignments, squad toggle.

Do you have a business front?  It'll take the cops a long time to find you if you do.

Complex analysis office hours begin in 15 minutes!

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Piscivore

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2004, 04:29:00 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Floydman:
<STRONG> ...but with nothing on what happened in the 15 years between the events.  It is hard to believe that 3 months of activity would settle the course for the following 15 years.</STRONG>

Maybe there should be a greater number, and more effective, random events as laws and attitudes begin to swing Left to simulate resistance efforts from the conservatives. Perhaps even running into the "Conservative Vigilante Squad" on a raid...  :) (I have occasionally run into pickup trucks full of rednecks, but that's hardly the same thing)

I did once let my Leader go to prison for several years early in the game just to see what the country would be like without the LCS- the roving Death Squads are a nice touch!

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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2004, 10:30:00 pm »

I actually had both a large number of people in my organisation, and many sleepers (like 28 of them).  All my percentages were between 95-100%, excepted for homosexual rights, which was lower.  So, after doing many raids to shift people's opinion, I started to brainwash sleepers (and I probably went overkill on it, I could sometime have 8 agents spending 500$ on the same hostage).  I had many many CIA agents that I seduced into the LCS, and was tired of waiting for the cops to raid me in order to show them my firepower.  But I tried the disband option, and it lets me win.  And I actually made some mistakes in my message.  It is 4 months, not 3, and 10 years, not 15.  Anyway, I had saved my save file to keep on playing anyway after my disbanding, and tried some different things (no more than 2 or 3 more missions), and I got more or less the same results, only 1 year sooner.  So I just dropped it and started a new game altogether.

I played a bit along the lines of the "really boring guide to LCS" publised in the forum, with the exeption that I used hookers as seduction agents, which quickly and with high efficieny seduced new CIA agents and programmers into my organisations, which went quicker than doing it alone.

As for my evasive techniques, I did many things, some of which may be more illusion than real game-implementation, but still...

First, I started my first few ops from the shelter.  Nothing too criminal, mostly recruiting and solliciting (and causing troubles if I have a hacker or need to raise my first 1000$), so as to not attract police attention too early (in my first games, I was raided quickly and often, that is if I survived the first raid).  Got myself some garment makers, in order to get some 10 sills to make exp. suits and raise more money this way, then I invested to get all I could in my first compound.  So, roughly in the second or third week, I move everybody who's important to me to the secured compound, and leave the not soo good garment makers back at the shelter selling brownies (I keep a few 8 or 9 to make my other clothes/disguises).  That's when I got my first raid, and it was for me the occasion of getting rid of all the helpless garment makers that I collected when looking for to sill 10 ones.  I made them fight and die, I guess they were relunctant to the idea of being deported    :D   I had a flag, and burned it on the occasion.

My real evasive actions started actually here.  I started to invest in my second compound, everything I could, so I could have another place to go to after a raid, but I didn't want to start going from hideout to another just to avoid police, which is why I equipped myself with some impressive firepower (I had nearly 30 agents).  My plan was to fight a raid, and then move because I would then know for sure I was busted.  Also, besides having business fronts for my two prepared hideouts, I also put a flag on all 4 hideout places, in order to make the police think that any of these places are subject to be my hideout place.  I am not sure if the game is programmed this way, but for 20$ a piece, flags are pretty cheap, they look good and it was fun to pretend anyway.

The last thing I did was to get back to a garment maker, get some oppressed workers, and put half of them to the homeless shelter and the other half in my other compound, just to sell brownies.  My guess was that they were making the most visible criminal acts of my organisation (excepted for raids, which we actually evade the police before going back home), so this is where the police would be looking first.  My brownie sellers actually got arrested one by one, and just when the people placed at the shelter all got arrested, the police raided the homeless shelter, only to find it empty.  So I repeated the process, put some people at my two empty places, and the same thing happened.  My really important people all have been left undisturbed for at least three months (after which time I could disband and win the game).  This enabled my to build a strong organisations, and did not have to suffer many losses.

The flags were probably just cosmetics, but I think that the decoys were pretty effective.  Does the game mechanics really work that way Tarn?

Also, someone mentionned that he liked the game very much because of the uniqueness certain characters can get.  In his case, he mentionned his leader who was paralized from his waist down.  I had such an interesting character.  Meet Agent Beta, the second agent hired into my squad (as his name implies), who got injured in one of his first missions.  He miraculously survived from a faceblast injury made by a firearm.  After three months of healing, he was back on duty with his health set as "FaceGone" (which would make a good nickname for him), and set with no left eye, no right eye and no nose.  He was still pretty good with a .45 semiauto for a guy who could not see.  And I can only imagine the effect on my hostages as they are brainwashed by a guy with such a horrifying face!

Kudos for a great game!

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Toady One

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2004, 11:35:00 pm »

He he he.  Not bad.  As far as flags go, well, mostly illusion -- what I remember:

1) Burning flags during a police siege in violation of flag burning laws gives you juice (maybe) and public opinion.

2) Burning flags in violation of flag burning laws any time can get you arrested for misdemeanor flag burning, felony flag burning or flag murder depending on the law.  Flag murder is a capital offense.

Anybody can fly a flag, so I'm not sure it would show you where your bases are -- maybe you should also be able to fly some kind of LCS symbol if you want to be brazen.  This goes with having an official uniform, as has been discussed.

I think after a number of the ideas that have been discussed are implemented, you shouldn't be able to just steamroll to victory, although, well, you have to be able to win somehow, right?

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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2004, 02:23:00 pm »

Oh yes, I won, that's not the problem.  I guess I should have tried to go to jail to see the society evolve instead of seeing the final results straight away.  Anyway, I have started a fresh new game just so that I can try differently.  I was having too much a hard time at the beginning, having to deal with both police raids and game crashes, so I looked for some kind of help which game in the guidelines of Jonathan S. Fox, but I guess I should have taken his boring warning more seriously.

Also, another idea or two (it is amazing to see how such a game can generate so much ideas from so many people).  I had a random news event about a convicted killer who was freed of jail, thanks to a retrial and a very liberal judge.  It would be cool if such random characters were actually released in the game, and that you can have a chane of meeting them somewhere and eventually recruit it/kidnap it/fight it (depending on the character's role and ideology appartenance).  Such characters could bolster high juice or charismatism, and maybe some high skills.  The randomness of such characters, and the fact that you never know if you're going to encounter them, would add a bit of depth in gameplay.

Also, it would be fun is we could encounter our sleepers during missions, they could be a different color, like purple instead of green-red-white.  I am not sure as to what we could do with them, but maybe giving them orders by "T"alking to them?

Also, I had another twisted idea: how hard would it be to make the exact opposite of the game?  Like "Conservative Conspiracy Squad" or something like this?  The premise is that the cons have just placed their people in the house (same starting conditions as LCS) by rigging enough election ballots and manipulating public opinion.  Now that they are in power, they have to make sure they stay there, and do so permanently, by establishing slowly but surely a dictatorship by eroding the current democracy.  To make things harder, they would have not only to shift public opinion towards extreme conservative thinking, but they would also have to fight and try to foil the plans of the Liberals, who will stop at nothing at re-establishing freedom in the country.  Game mechanincs would be pretty much the same, just playing on the other side of the mirror.  That would add more tongue-in-cheek humor to the concept   :D

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Toady One

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2004, 03:12:00 pm »

Regarding newspaper articles, my brother and I had been discussing implementations of some of the other stories about prescription drugs and so on, like realizing some of the ones that let you see in the dark or that let chimps move objects with their minds.  So if you let your game get out to 2020, things will be really messed up.

Somebody a long time ago mentioned a "Conservative Crime Squad" idea -- I'm just not the person to write it.  Somebody with a better ear for that side of the fence should go ahead and do it.  I'm afraid I'd miss too many things for my version to be any good.

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Pono

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2004, 07:39:00 pm »

i agree with a disguise your base idea.... with like a "This is not the LCS" or something acting like that heh
I also like the "meet an escape convict" that would rock! i would recruit them....then they kill for you...right in the middle of the Cafe or Shelter or w/e
the police catch him..and YOU get away with HIS crime...get it?
Also imagine "Escape convict Henry Person is still missing...police are going to give up on the search." then BAM a murder happens or "person reported missing" (you kidnapping someone) "police say Henry Someone is still at large" wouldnt that be awesome?

i still havent beaten it...but look at this
"Lucky Davidson (my guy heh) Security, Computers, Persuation, Law, and other shit is like at 20 and above....
he has walked into a Intelligence HQ and robbed the place CLEAN! and no one even got suspisious. he is the perfect spy dude...
i rob the headquarters overand over.....and i get so much money for it...casue all they have it computers and printers. its so much fun....and even police places..jails, the garment makers. all those...its awesome...an im still playing it

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Piscivore

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2004, 10:27:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Floydman:
<STRONG> Also, I had another twisted idea: how hard would it be to make the exact opposite of the game?  Like "Conservative Conspiracy Squad" or something like this?  The premise is that the cons have just placed their people in the house (same starting conditions as LCS) by rigging enough election ballots and manipulating public opinion.  Now that they are in power, they have to make sure they stay there, and do so permanently, by establishing slowly but surely a dictatorship by eroding the current democracy.</STRONG>

Erm, that's not a game, that's RL...

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Floydman

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Re: LCS 3.06
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2004, 12:44:00 pm »

I know, it's part of the joke   ;)

But besides the jokes that the game are posing in regards to RL, the difference would be that in Cons Crime Squad (or whatever) would be that the liberals are quite strong, in order to pose a real challenge.

Anyway, just throwing ideas in the air and doing some wishful thinking.

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