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[Mike Mayday]

You seem to be making a habit of not reading my posts. 

And once I have all the furniture I could ever use, what do I do with rocks?

From the devitems: "World map roads, bridges, walls and tunnels shouldn't just be products of world generation. You should be able to dispatch dwarves and materials to accomplish these tasks (though the amount of material used in a typical world generation road would virtually prohibit doing this as it currently stands, so something has to change)"

And I thought you were against the idea of rock pulverization because it atomized the rock and made it go "poof" and become nothing (I mean, if novice miners always pulverize rock, and as they get better they do it less often, oh wait, that's exactly what we have now).

I don't even know what you're getting at here, so let me repeat:

I understand that you would be happy with a 'pulverize' option- and I have no problem with that. But I myself consider it cheating.

... and then I suggested the possibility of enabling pulverization in the game options.

EDIT: Another idea:
every miner is capable of performing all the tasks, from the quickest to the longest
-dig small rocks
-dig medium rocks
-dig large rocks
-pulverize stone
Skill simply allows them to do it quicker.

[Tormy]

Mike, don't you think that this would make the whole mining system overly complicated? I am always supporting all ideas, what are adding to the realism factor, but this seems like a bit unnecessary.

*edit*

EDIT: Another idea:
every miner is capable of performing all the tasks, from the quickest to the longest
-dig small rocks
-dig medium rocks
-dig large rocks
-pulverize stone
Skill simply allows them to do it quicker.

Yeah maybe this could work. 

[Align]

that last sounds like the age-old "Excavate vs Quarry" designations suggestion

[Mike Mayday]

Yeah, I'm not saying I'd be happy with it, it's more of a last resort (and still with the option to disable the "pulverize" option).

[Areyar]

I'd be delighted if one more instance of "non-conserved mass" is adressed, even when it creates a lot of extra cleaning up work.

Also to adress the "clutter does not hinder dwarves" issue.
I suggest forcing dwarves* to crawl over any occupied tile just like when a tile is occupied by another dwarf*.

*any mobile entity for that matter.

[Frelock]

Also to adress the "clutter does not hinder dwarves" issue.
I suggest forcing dwarves* to crawl over any occupied tile just like when a tile is occupied by another dwarf*.

*any mobile entity for that matter.

Occupied with what?  After all, do you really want your dwarves being slowed down by some random ring on the floor?  Perhaps have big items and small items, with big items being, for example, freshly mined stone, and small items being amulets, clothing, and whatnot (that's getting rather general and off-topic).

[Areyar]

Which is why I decided not to mention details like 'cluttersize'.
This thread already discusses quantification of rock into 7/7 units of stone of various sizxes and utility.
quantifying objects to 7/7 'clutter' (eg corridor-filling) seems of a similar nature. (<3 walk over, 3-6 crawl over, 7 impassible...however I see a problem with objects such as statues etc which are impassible after being placed, but logically of 3-6 size)

[Savok]

Alright. I've only read the first page of this thread and don't have time to read more.

However, fact: It is a whole lot easier to physically move 2000lbs of granite a few hundred feet than to physically take a heavy stick with some metal on the end and hack out 2000lbs of granite from deep underground, with poor ventilation and low lighting. Once Toady handles this stuff, hauling speeds will be plenty fast in relation to mining speeds.

And I assume that the dwarves are, at the very least, using wheelbarrows. They're a whole lot easier to make than complex mechanisms.

[Tack]

uh... has anybody ever thought of having the option of.

1.pulverise rock
2.mine rock

Why screw around with small med and large rocks?
right now they'd all be the same speed hauling, and they'd clutter up a fortress.
I don't want a million dump orders when i want to have a clean fortress.

[Kruniac]

I want to start off by saying, "Thank you for supporting my position."
Second, "unfinished development objects" and "refuse items" aren't one and the same.

(Refuse, however, will always be with us and we'd better start thinking of fun/useful ways to dispose of it.. Realism as well as easy disposal requirements would be satified with a growing pile of slag and gravel somewhere at the bottom of a cliff.)

If someone can find a fun way to dispose of 14 million dwarfpounds of gravel, I'd be all for it.  Requiring it be hauled to an ever-growing mountain of debris is not fun (though less fun than dumping it in a pit or in magma, neither of which are all that entertaining).  Same applies to night soil, giving it a use (fertilizer) isn't really enough.

Those are the challenges of building a fortress. Gravel could be used to fill in pits (and pits would have to be dug to dispose of gravel), waste could be disposed of in a similar way.

I'm up for anything that provides realism without taking away from the fantasy setting.

[Draco18s]

I am not digging a hole to throw gravel into the hole that was made up of the rock that came out of the hole.

[Silverionmox]

They you'd  better play elves.

[Demonic Gophers]

You can build in the mountains, and just dump all your rubble off the nearest cliff.

If you want to dig a big hole, you have to put all the stuff you dig out somewhere.  That's simply the way that tunneling works.

[bjlong]

Also, there should be more realistic mined tunnels. You should have to dig out arches, more supports...in short the design of tunnels should be something else that people should look into. Right now, we have square tunnels that would be really structurally unsound.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I support the supports, and second the arches.

Maybe there could be "build supports" and "build arches" commands? Even if they were just cosmetic (for now...muah-ha-ha!), it would be a nice feature to be able to add.