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Author Topic: Feces and Urine  (Read 35179 times)

Deimos56

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #195 on: March 13, 2010, 11:17:23 pm »

Sounds good so far. Just one thing.
If there's going to be waste and waste-associated stuff in the game...
We're going to have to have dwarves that recognize when they're on fire and act accordingly. Because I'm not going to be happy if I make sewer pipes full of assorted flammable material just in time for Urist McConstipated to decide using the facilities is more important than putting himself out.
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I'm curious what the barely conscious ai wrote about.
Well that went better than expected.  He went nuts and punched a rabbit to death, then the dogs and the whole dining hall ripped him to shreds.

Dvergar

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #196 on: March 13, 2010, 11:53:12 pm »

I only skimmed through the thread, so forgive me if somebody has mentioned this.

What about simply having this tied into a "hygene" task?  Dwarves take so much time each (season/month) to clean themselves up.  Poor/early dwaves would not have any hygene items, but later on happy thoughts are given when a dwarf uses a: Privy, sink, tub, or mirror.  I believe hygene is going to be in the next version, waste-associated stuff could be subtly included.  These hygene tasks would require water, and would taint the water.
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tylor

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #197 on: March 14, 2010, 12:09:24 am »

100% natural organic self-made product blocks. Ideal for megaprojects. Like 14z statue of particularly annoying noble. Or just made entire fortress of it - by dorf, for dorfs!
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Jacob/Lee

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #198 on: March 14, 2010, 02:02:37 am »

If we could do this in adventure mode that would be hilarious.

*The spinning shit strikes the wolf in the head!*
*The wolf vomits!*
*The wolf gives into disgustion*

Silverionmox

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #199 on: March 14, 2010, 10:10:49 am »


We also need ammonia as a cleaning product for clothing, produced from distilled urine!
I just got a vision of a fortress that bought cheap dirty clothing and sold expensive clean clothing, turning a into b by means of a giant device that could flush its grate-bordered storage chambers with either water, soapy water, lye or ammonia... dwarven laundry service. XD
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Dwarf Fortress cured my savescumming.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #200 on: March 14, 2010, 10:15:08 am »


We also need ammonia as a cleaning product for clothing, produced from distilled urine!
I just got a vision of a fortress that bought cheap dirty clothing and sold expensive clean clothing, turning a into b by means of a giant device that could flush its grate-bordered storage chambers with either water, soapy water, lye or ammonia... dwarven laundry service. XD

You can thank my love of History Channel for that one...

The Romans actually did clean their clothing through the use of distilled urine.  They even had a laundry service like that, since most Romans were living in urban apartments, and things like dining and cleaning were best handled in seperate facilities, instead of every famliy having their own.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Darbuk.Ubildolush

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #201 on: March 21, 2010, 02:45:40 pm »

I have to say that this is something I've been wanting for a long time in this game.  Mostly for the purposes of increasing the farming complexity, requiring further constructions such as a functioning sewer system or other solutions, extracts of ammonia, phosphorous, dealing with new sources of miasma, possibly an explosive gas (since we don't have firedamp in this game yet), use of urine in tanning alongside brains (every animal alive or dead has just enough brains to save it's hide).

Of course, this also makes me want bath-tubs for bedrooms that nobles will demand, the ability to create a hot water system, and dwarves hauling buckets for piss-ant nobles who want their duckies.  Feckin' nobles.

Also, of course, large public baths.
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<At the Midnight Coffee and Endarkenment Sand Bar, at a Mantis Shrimp Man Poetry Jam>
"I call this one "Dining on the shores of a dwarven hold with seaweed in my hand."
"Little dwarven man,
Your insides are delicious.
You can not blame me."
*SNAPSNAPBOOMBOOMSNAPBOOMSNAPBOOM*

Dvergar

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #202 on: March 21, 2010, 05:56:15 pm »

When a dwarf checks his chest or some other personal task, is it a "reaction" meaning it can create items eg.) modded urine?
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Draco18s

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #203 on: March 21, 2010, 07:12:49 pm »

When a dwarf checks his chest or some other personal task, is it a "reaction" meaning it can create items eg.) modded urine?

No.  Reactions are specifically the smelter tasks.
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3

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #204 on: March 22, 2010, 08:39:56 am »

However, that'll begin to change in the next version - we'll have custom workshops then, and from there it'll only be a matter of time until the regular workshops cease being hardcoded. Reactions'll still not really have anything to do with dwarf behaviour, though, only tasks.
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Nikov

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #205 on: March 22, 2010, 09:43:54 am »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything that increases the difficulty of planning and maintaining an underground fortress, I am so there. I always thought an actual dwarven city under a mountain would have to be built with habitable space above the entryway with the slums and industrial areas below, and wondered how the air supply of the massive furnaces could be harnessed to provide ventilation and heat for the whole mountain. I want smoke from forges and public and private baths with water cisterns filled from snowmelt and sewer systems flushed by greywater into the depths below or streams above, angering underground monsters or elves above who tire of you pouring your filth into their homes. I want kobolds living in the sewer network and abandoned mines, collecting little piles of coins, ore and rags while gnawing bones and gristle from the kitchen scuppers. I want a clean, polished city above and a hellish underworld below that, from time to time, boils over into the streets and prompt a vigorous battle before the sewers are purged with fire.

These things I demand, for they are DWARFY!
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I should probably have my head checked, because I find myself in complete agreement with Nikov.

Andeerz

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #206 on: March 22, 2010, 04:42:46 pm »

Beautifully put, Nikov.  It brings a tear to my eye.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #207 on: March 22, 2010, 07:09:56 pm »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything that increases the difficulty of planning and maintaining an underground fortress, I am so there. I always thought an actual dwarven city under a mountain would have to be built with habitable space above the entryway with the slums and industrial areas below, and wondered how the air supply of the massive furnaces could be harnessed to provide ventilation and heat for the whole mountain. I want smoke from forges and public and private baths with water cisterns filled from snowmelt and sewer systems flushed by greywater into the depths below or streams above, angering underground monsters or elves above who tire of you pouring your filth into their homes. I want kobolds living in the sewer network and abandoned mines, collecting little piles of coins, ore and rags while gnawing bones and gristle from the kitchen scuppers. I want a clean, polished city above and a hellish underworld below that, from time to time, boils over into the streets and prompt a vigorous battle before the sewers are purged with fire.

These things I demand, for they are DWARFY!

Ah, another use for mechanical energy: Ventilation Fans.

We might even have an air pollution model that makes breathing and any kind of fire consume oxygen.  You could vent air out into the open world, or maybe there could be some kind of subterranean system of air filtration (whether biological or through a chemical reaction) for dedicated subterranean dwarves.  Fans could be something like "air pumps", and would generate air flow through the vent ducts, pushing air outside, sucking air in, or cycling air through the air scrubbers.

The chimneys of smoke-producing workshops, miasma, and the odor of dwarven "bodily waste" could require similar venting and air circulation.

... Granted, it would hopefully take place after flow calculations were cleaned up a little more in this game, so that it didn't kill the FPS so darn much.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
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Draco18s

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #208 on: March 22, 2010, 07:34:55 pm »

I've said it before and I'll say it again, anything that increases the difficulty of planning and maintaining an underground fortress, I am so there
[...]
I want a clean, polished city above and a hellish underworld below that, from time to time, boils over into the streets and prompt a vigorous battle before the sewers are purged with fire.

These things I demand, for they are DWARFY!

Ah, another use for mechanical energy: Ventilation Fans.

We might even have an air pollution model that makes breathing and any kind of fire consume oxygen.

....I'm gonna have to say that at best we should have phlogistion.*  The reason I say "at best" is because the theory was made in the 1600s, but didn't really have any new data that didn't exist for hundreds of years prior.  Basically: it was known that fire caused a process by which air gained or lost some property that allowed fire (and other oxidation processes) to work.  Eg. "dephlogisticated" air couldn't sustain life, burn wood, or rust metal, no matter how hard you tried.

*Slightly made up word.  I couldn't find the proper tense verb form of the word.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2010, 07:38:22 pm by Draco18s »
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Feces and Urine
« Reply #209 on: March 22, 2010, 09:13:20 pm »

....I'm gonna have to say that at best we should have phlogistion.*  The reason I say "at best" is because the theory was made in the 1600s, but didn't really have any new data that didn't exist for hundreds of years prior.  Basically: it was known that fire caused a process by which air gained or lost some property that allowed fire (and other oxidation processes) to work.  Eg. "dephlogisticated" air couldn't sustain life, burn wood, or rust metal, no matter how hard you tried.

*Slightly made up word.  I couldn't find the proper tense verb form of the word.

If you're saying that there shouldn't be air flow control systems because dwarves don't understand air, you're assuming two things I don't particularly like...

First, you're assuming that dwarf science and technology would progress perfectly along the same lines as human science.

Second, you're assuming that dwarves would have to understand something like a perfect understanding of modern chemistry to be able to do something like set up a ventilation system. 

Dwarves live underground.  Humans didn't.  Creatures that live underground in cramped caves that are filled with numerous breathing creatures are going to notice that air goes bad eventually.  Even without advanced understanding of how gasses work in mines, miners were using canaries in the coal mine, after all.  Dwarves, who live in far more extreme subterranean conditions, to the point of being entirely capable of having entire cities where few, if any, dwarves ever see the surface for periods as long as perhaps their entire lives, would probably have a much better empirical understanding of how gasses behave in enclosed spaces than the older human idea that air is somehow a void.

Even if they don't know what, exactly, is going on, they can understand when something makes air easier to breathe, if they have access to it.  If this were some kind of organism that somehow released oxygen in a non-photosynthetic reaction, and dwarves noticed that it became easier to breathe (and why wouldn't dwarves either use canaries, or just plain adapt to cave life by being sensitive to air quality?) when that sort of strange glowy fungus was around, they would probably start wanting more of it around wherever there were plenty of breathing creatures.

If they can build a fan, if only to move miasma away from them (which they can certainly understand comes from rotting corpses), they can build a fan that moves hard to breathe air away from them.  If you want to call it "phlogmatic air" or whatever, instead of something simpler, like "depleted air", then that's little more than an argument of terminology.  (I honestly have little taste for such terms, myself, but it's not worth getting too up in arms over.)
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

Improved Farming
Class Warfare
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