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[Draco18s]

I'm not denying that he's good, and I'm not denying that he can probably hold a lot of broad structure and design in his noggin, but I said "the entirety of an application" meaning every single detail of every single class/object/method. That's what I say is impossible.

In my experience, as soon as you move implementation details out of your head to concentrate on other structure or code, it becomes extremely difficult to keep track of the scope and references of said details, and you start hitting problems when you refine bits of structure and forget that you've used the same structure in multiple places.

I know my limit is about 1000 lines of code, give or take (my largest application is a flash game at roughly 2000 lines, the longest segment in one place is just over 1400, and I don't even look at a large chunk of it any more because I don't need to (actually, right now, there's something wrong with it, but I have no idea what because I didn't touch it and it broke (actually, it's an issue with a class that should be importing with the creation of a movieclip, but it's not importing for some reason, that area of code just happens to be where it occurs (or more accurately, doesn't occur)))).

[APAKane]

Yes, we know Toady doesn't want anyone to play with code. take that as read.

However, I think that the coders amongst us *might* be able give him some pointers when it comes to esoteric data structures and design ideas, thats where we, as ALPHA testers come in.

No one man, as far as I am concerned (being a developer of 15+ years experience) can hold the entirety of an application in his head, unless its a trivial implementation. Add in the wonders of user modification, insanely odd uses of a generic engine, and the myriad of choices that an application like DF allows, and the beauty and simplicity of the design can very quickly become chaoticised (look ma, a new word!) with specific case coding constructs. Been there, Done that, re-written the engine multiple times and got the pizza.

I'm not belittling Toady's stated preference for handling the code himself (It's the way I like to work as well), but I really do like to see him give us the gems of information on the backend structure, and I'd love, and I know others would love, to be able to join him in a virtual brainstorm sometime.

Who knows? maybe someone out there has the perfect solution for something that Toady hasn't got the design perfectly sorted for

This was what I was getting at. Some of the algorithms feel overly complicated. I tried searching for other topics like this, but as I said, found none. One response was fine. Geez guys...

[Agent_Irons]

I know my limit is about 1000 lines of code, give or take (my largest application is a flash game at roughly 2000 lines, the longest segment in one place is just over 1400, and I don't even look at a large chunk of it any more because I don't need to (actually, right now, there's something wrong with it, but I have no idea what because I didn't touch it and it broke (actually, it's an issue with a class that should be importing with the creation of a movieclip, but it's not importing for some reason, that area of code just happens to be where it occurs (or more accurately, doesn't occur)))).

Only programmers will open and then close 4th level nested brackets.

[Jifodus]

Your programming skill level goes up with the number of nested brackets. It also means you're using lisp.

This was what I was getting at. Some of the algorithms feel overly complicated. I tried searching for other topics like this, but as I said, found none. One response was fine. Geez guys...

Which algorithms do you think are overly complicated. I do know some behave like they are incomplete (because they are) and I suspect that's why you think they are overly complicated.

[Draco18s]

I know my limit is about 1000 lines of code, give or take (my largest application is a flash game at roughly 2000 lines, the longest segment in one place is just over 1400, and I don't even look at a large chunk of it any more because I don't need to (actually, right now, there's something wrong with it, but I have no idea what because I didn't touch it and it broke (actually, it's an issue with a class that should be importing with the creation of a movieclip, but it's not importing for some reason, that area of code just happens to be where it occurs (or more accurately, doesn't occur)))).

Only programmers will open and then close 4th level nested brackets, even when writing forum posts and essays.

Fixed.