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Author Topic: Incursion  (Read 121712 times)

chooseusername

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #900 on: June 08, 2014, 03:23:09 am »

I've got another Y9 save with a repeating crash here:

http://www.filedropper.com/gremlinssave

Interacting with the earthen gremlins to the northeast seems to cause the crash to happen immediately, but it will still crash after a while if they're avoided. Casting an Ice Dagger at the gremlins is a quick way to crash it. There are also some spell effects going on to the southeast, so the gremlins might not be to blame.
This is a new one.  A variable is the wrong sized type, and a loop just keeps on looping.
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If you are providing a save file to reproduce an Incursion bug, please compress it and attach it to an issue on the bitbucket site.  I recommend 7zip for compression.

Mindmaker

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #901 on: June 08, 2014, 04:22:08 am »

Good starting weapon focus for a dwarven fighter in incursion? Do you start with the weapon you are focused in?
I'm confused by the dozens of options you are presented with there.

Also what decides if I can use weapons with shields? They aren't marked as twohanded or anything.
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Retropunch

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #902 on: June 08, 2014, 09:15:29 am »

All that said, I don't think adding a new section to the in-game manual would be too terribly much trouble from a coding perspective, so long as someone writes it (and probably annotates it properly for the engine to use).
Frumple! Frumple! Frumple!
Seriously though - you seem the most knowledgeable and a short yet informative 'beginners guide' for the game (or at the very least, for the wiki/internet) would be great. I'm sure we could all pull together to give feedback and polish it up, so it'd only need to be a rough one. I'd love to do it myself but I don't know anywhere near enough about Inc or DnD unfortunately.

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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Zireael

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #903 on: June 08, 2014, 09:47:58 am »

Quote
   
Quote
All that said, I don't think adding a new section to the in-game manual would be too terribly much trouble from a coding perspective, so long as someone writes it (and probably annotates it properly for the engine to use).

Frumple! Frumple! Frumple!

Frumple, I suppose I could help out but I am nowhere close to a beginner and I don't know what a beginner really needs :)
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Frumple

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #904 on: June 08, 2014, 10:00:55 am »

Good starting weapon focus for a dwarven fighter in incursion? Do you start with the weapon you are focused in?
I'm confused by the dozens of options you are presented with there.

Also what decides if I can use weapons with shields? They aren't marked as twohanded or anything.
Dwarven waraxe never hurts for a dwarf, ha. They don't have to burn a feat to get proficiency with 'em, and they're pretty much "battleaxe but better". Scimitar's good, as is rapier (high crit chance in both cases, strong defensive boost from the latter). Maul is solid, though with that you'll probably want to aim for monkey grip (Power attack -> monkey grip) so you can use a shield, too. I've always been fond of light flails, as well.

Really, just about anything will do (except maybe daggers... and even those, you can grab a level of diviner mage and pick up daggerspell for shenanigans. Blowpipes kinda' suck, at least.), so long as it's not the buggerhuge weapons (great maul, great lance, etc.), which take very, very particular builds to use (involving perked spells or items, or multiclassing, as well as particular feat choices. Unless you're a high level druid, anyway.). Probably best to stay away from the double and reach weapons (barring spiked chain, the most imba of weapons) to begin with, too. I'd mostly just say skim through this and see if anything looks particularly appealing to you, stat wise. Otherwise just skim through the options and see if anything looks pretty to you.

As for shield, it (whether a weapon is one or two handed or not, actually) is entirely dependent on size -- player size compared to shield and weapon size. You can naturally use anything your size or smaller one handed (unless the weapon says otherwise, as per quarterstaves or spiked chains) -- this includes both weapons and shields, with anything larger than you requiring two hands. So, as a dwarf, you can use almost any medium (human sized? Forget which the game uses) or smaller weapon and medium or smaller shield together right off the bat, no other monkeying around.

The monkey grip feat will let you one-hand weapons one size up, so you'd be able to use large or smaller weapons one handed (though I think it doesn't apply to shields, so you'd still be stuck with medium or smaller shields, as a dwarf), and shield and spear lets you treat reach weapons specifically as one size smaller, so long as you're wearing a shield (though again, I'd probably recommend not messing with non-spiked-chain reach weapons for now. They're a bit more finicky than non-reach weapons.).

Frumple, I suppose I could help out but I am nowhere close to a beginner and I don't know what a beginner really needs :)
Yeah, that's the problem. Even beyond that, when I was first getting into incursion just about everything felt very intuitive to me -- Inc was one of the first roguelikes I ever actually beat, and one of only three (out of hundreds played), along with crawl and ToME4, I've won more than once. I can answer a lot of questions, but figuring out the questions before they're asked is... more troublesome, heh.
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Mindmaker

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #905 on: June 08, 2014, 10:42:07 am »

Thanks for the advice.

I made it to level 3 this time before I quit (on the first floor, damn those are huge), but I think Warrior may not the the class for me.
Doesn't feel rogueliky enough with the starting weapon focus, since that makes me not want to use any of the other weapon categories.

I'll have to decide on one of the other character classes.
At least I'm slowly getting the hang of this game.
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Retropunch

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #906 on: June 08, 2014, 10:50:15 am »

Frumple, I suppose I could help out but I am nowhere close to a beginner and I don't know what a beginner really needs :)
Yeah, that's the problem. Even beyond that, when I was first getting into incursion just about everything felt very intuitive to me -- Inc was one of the first roguelikes I ever actually beat, and one of only three (out of hundreds played), along with crawl and ToME4, I've won more than once. I can answer a lot of questions, but figuring out the questions before they're asked is... more troublesome, heh.
I have the same problem with DCSS and AI war, I can answer questions but explaining it is something completely different!

How about if MindMaker (and any other new-ish players) put together a list of questions? There's some basic stuff like good starting race/skills/equipment, standard tactics and things/enemies to be wary of that shouldn't be too hard to think up.
Another way of doing it would be just to do a play-by-play of an easy character. Just going through the thought process 'I went to the xyz first because of xzy' and 'I avoided xyz because it does xzy' would be very useful. That's my problem, that I don't really know why I'm avoiding stuff/doing things in it, I just go 'that killed me at around this level before, I need to be better first'.

 
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

Frumple

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #907 on: June 08, 2014, 10:56:25 am »

I made it to level 3 this time before I quit (on the first floor, damn those are huge), but I think Warrior may not the the class for me.
Doesn't feel rogueliky enough with the starting weapon focus, since that makes me not want to use any of the other weapon categories.
Yeah, if you're looking for a warrior that is a bit more willing to shift weapon choice on the fly, you can pick a more support-y weapon as your focus. Boomerang/chakram, ranged weapons in general, something with reach. With those, you'll still be using other weapons fairly regularly, and have no particular incentive to use one type over another.

Alternately, barbarians have roughly the same weapon availability, but no focus. Rangers and priests are about in the same place, I think. Conceptually paladins (everything but maybe monks, mages, and druids, really) are, too, but pallies are a bit of a PitA to play, so...
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Mindmaker

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #908 on: June 08, 2014, 11:20:30 am »

Using a support weapon is a really good suggestion.
I guess I could make notes about think I'm wondering about and those I have figured out by myself. Especially once I'm back home.
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Zireael

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #909 on: June 08, 2014, 11:47:44 am »

Quote
How about if MindMaker (and any other new-ish players) put together a list of questions? There's some basic stuff like good starting race/skills/equipment, standard tactics and things/enemies to be wary of that shouldn't be too hard to think up.
Another way of doing it would be just to do a play-by-play of an easy character. Just going through the thought process 'I went to the xyz first because of xzy' and 'I avoided xyz because it does xzy' would be very useful.

That's a very good suggestion.

Someone upthread pointed out why zombies can be annoying.

So keep those questions going and Frumple and I will try to answer them :D
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Robsoie

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #910 on: June 08, 2014, 01:17:50 pm »

Something that could help in setting up a guide could be a collection of "what NOT to do".
... like charging a bunch of piranha birds with your ranger at level 1 :D
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Mindmaker

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #911 on: June 08, 2014, 02:47:39 pm »

Do bucklers have the penalty for unskilled use of bigger shields?
Trying to play my rogue as a kind of swashbuckler character, since dual wield doesn't seem all that great unless you find some amazing weapon for the second slot.
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Frumple

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #912 on: June 08, 2014, 02:58:51 pm »

Dual wield takes some feats to get rolling, yeah, and some weapons (spiked chains) are definitely better for it than others. You will eventually find amazing weapons to stick in the offhand, if it came to that, but that's after a bit and generally won't help you get off the ground. Warriors and rangers are honestly about the only classes that can reasonably start (or at least start fairly early) dual wielding.

As for shields, shields are largely like armor. If the description doesn't mention a penalty, there is no penalty, even if you don't have proficiency (tip: Bucklers are about the best thing a mage or caster-primary druid can wear). The description will update based on your current size and any attributes the item might have. Most bucklers can be used without penalty by just about anyone (unless they've been shrunk, or the shield is orcish).
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Ask not!
What your country can hump for you.
Ask!
What you can hump for your country.

Mindmaker

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #913 on: June 08, 2014, 03:03:32 pm »

@DW
Why is it no recommended for a rogue, considering he starts with ambidexterity already?
Just curious, although I'd rather go with a buckler for riposte.
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Dutchling

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Re: Incursion
« Reply #914 on: June 08, 2014, 03:05:23 pm »

Created a new character, a Dwarf Paladin. First enemy in the first part of the dungeon kills me.

Why do I even like this game >.>
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